Are the Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook classes balanced in power compared to the Player's Handbook classes? At first level, a SW soldier has a high Defense bonus, but no bonus feat. The fighter from the PHB has no Defense bonus, but does have a bonus feat. Are the classes balanced without defense and reputation bonuses in a campaign without blasters and lightsabers? I am wondering if the rogue is equal to the tech specialist w/o a defense bonus. Is this statement true? Thanks for considering.
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SW and PHB classes--Equal, or Not?
- Thread starter Ausderop
- Start date
I can't really say yay or nay, but I can give some info about the campaign I am in.
Any and all classes are available, from DnD to SW to Fading Suns to just about any d20 product out there.
Out of everyone in the party (eight people currently) only three have classes that are not DnD classes, and two of those are Fading Suns classes.
We don't use Defense or Reputation, and the basic DnD classes are using the DragonStar alterations.
Whats that mean? Beats me. I would say the Fading Suns classes seem weaker to me, but thats just IMO.
I would think Star Wars would be balanced with most of the DnD classes, although I think Jedi would actually be getting the short end of the stick, so to speak, in a mixture world where you could instead have the abilities of a Fighter/Cleric or a Paladin.
Any and all classes are available, from DnD to SW to Fading Suns to just about any d20 product out there.
Out of everyone in the party (eight people currently) only three have classes that are not DnD classes, and two of those are Fading Suns classes.
We don't use Defense or Reputation, and the basic DnD classes are using the DragonStar alterations.
Whats that mean? Beats me. I would say the Fading Suns classes seem weaker to me, but thats just IMO.
I would think Star Wars would be balanced with most of the DnD classes, although I think Jedi would actually be getting the short end of the stick, so to speak, in a mixture world where you could instead have the abilities of a Fighter/Cleric or a Paladin.
No problem. Its actually something I have thought on a lot (seeing as it affects the game I am in and all.)
Since everyone has most stuck to DnD classes, I have been unable to tell if there is really any unbalance in doing it the way we have.
Recently one player has started to take levels in the Explorer class from the recent Omega World. If it wasn't that his player was the last guy in the world to ever min-max, I would be scared.
Since everyone has most stuck to DnD classes, I have been unable to tell if there is really any unbalance in doing it the way we have.
Recently one player has started to take levels in the Explorer class from the recent Omega World. If it wasn't that his player was the last guy in the world to ever min-max, I would be scared.
Skywalker
Adventurer
I would say the SW classes are more powered than the D&D equivalents. Some observations:
1. No SW class has d4 for vitality points. They are all d6 or better.
2. No SW class has a poor BAB progression. IIRC they all have the middle progression or better.
3. No SW class has 2 skill points per level. They all have 4 skill points per level or more. This includes the soldier. A soldier is the same as a fighter but he has twice as many skills points.
I find the SW classes less specialised and more all round capable than their D&D equivalents.
1. No SW class has d4 for vitality points. They are all d6 or better.
2. No SW class has a poor BAB progression. IIRC they all have the middle progression or better.
3. No SW class has 2 skill points per level. They all have 4 skill points per level or more. This includes the soldier. A soldier is the same as a fighter but he has twice as many skills points.
I find the SW classes less specialised and more all round capable than their D&D equivalents.
I think it depends on how the game is being run.....
In pure combat power, D&D is stronger at first, and then becomes less powerful overall. they can dish out the damage, but not avoid it as well. Now Star Wars starts off a bit lower key... sure they can buy bigger weapons, but in raw physicality they are weaker. But as they level they avoid the damage much better than the D&D classes are.
There is no wish spell in Star Wars.... this is a huge thing to consider. As D&D classes evolve, the magical classes becom much more powerful than the Star Wars classes, but the non-magical classes start to lag behind.
Why is this?
I think it is due to one inherent flaw in the core D&D system that other games have sought to fix. in Oriental Adventures you can be way more powerul than the typical D&D character. But they are fairly balanced. but a character from Star Wars, Farscape or Swashbuckling Adventures (one of the best D20 books EVER!) will eventually be superior. They all earn AC bonuses as they level.
the built in problem to D&D is that you continually get better with your attacks, and your spells get more powerful... but only he Monk gets better defensively as they level. Star Wars and Farscape scales up AC as you level. Swashbuckling scales it up, and adds feats that allow you to increase your AC with level. So the challenge stays consistent in those environments, but in D&D the mighty fighter can hit anything. but unless his equipment, or magic buddies, are good, he might still have a 19 or 23 AC.
In pure combat power, D&D is stronger at first, and then becomes less powerful overall. they can dish out the damage, but not avoid it as well. Now Star Wars starts off a bit lower key... sure they can buy bigger weapons, but in raw physicality they are weaker. But as they level they avoid the damage much better than the D&D classes are.
There is no wish spell in Star Wars.... this is a huge thing to consider. As D&D classes evolve, the magical classes becom much more powerful than the Star Wars classes, but the non-magical classes start to lag behind.
Why is this?
I think it is due to one inherent flaw in the core D&D system that other games have sought to fix. in Oriental Adventures you can be way more powerul than the typical D&D character. But they are fairly balanced. but a character from Star Wars, Farscape or Swashbuckling Adventures (one of the best D20 books EVER!) will eventually be superior. They all earn AC bonuses as they level.
the built in problem to D&D is that you continually get better with your attacks, and your spells get more powerful... but only he Monk gets better defensively as they level. Star Wars and Farscape scales up AC as you level. Swashbuckling scales it up, and adds feats that allow you to increase your AC with level. So the challenge stays consistent in those environments, but in D&D the mighty fighter can hit anything. but unless his equipment, or magic buddies, are good, he might still have a 19 or 23 AC.
ZSutherland
First Post
I agree with most everything Skywalker & i3ullseye said. My only discrepancies with Skywalker being:
1. True, no one gets really shoddy vitality in SW, but that one critical hit that goes straight to wound points (which don't ever increase unless your con goes up) can take you down fast. Your tech specialist or noble, for example who probably don't consider Con to be their most important stat , will have an average of 10 to 11 wound points even at 20th level. One good solid hit with a blaster, even from a lowly stormtrooper can drop them and this is true for most of the classes.
2. No one gets 2 + Int modifier skills in SW, but skills are also considerably more important in SW and it's a game setting where they would be easier to come by, given mass hi-speed transit and long range communication and multi-media tool not to mention a Basic language common to nearly everybody in the galaxy.
As for i3ullseye, I couldn't agree more. I've always thought it was a bit stupid that DND characters over time get phenomenal at dishing out damage in mass and such, but never get any better at avoiding it w/o equipment or magic considering that if you take any martial arts class except maybe jiujitsu, since it's techniques require you to get really close, the first thing they're likely to teach you is "Get out da way!"
Z
1. True, no one gets really shoddy vitality in SW, but that one critical hit that goes straight to wound points (which don't ever increase unless your con goes up) can take you down fast. Your tech specialist or noble, for example who probably don't consider Con to be their most important stat , will have an average of 10 to 11 wound points even at 20th level. One good solid hit with a blaster, even from a lowly stormtrooper can drop them and this is true for most of the classes.
2. No one gets 2 + Int modifier skills in SW, but skills are also considerably more important in SW and it's a game setting where they would be easier to come by, given mass hi-speed transit and long range communication and multi-media tool not to mention a Basic language common to nearly everybody in the galaxy.
As for i3ullseye, I couldn't agree more. I've always thought it was a bit stupid that DND characters over time get phenomenal at dishing out damage in mass and such, but never get any better at avoiding it w/o equipment or magic considering that if you take any martial arts class except maybe jiujitsu, since it's techniques require you to get really close, the first thing they're likely to teach you is "Get out da way!"
Z
Falcon of Lugh
First Post
That's implying a stormtrooper can hit the broadside of a barn with a blaster shot.ZSutherland said:
All humor aside...
Star Wars classes aren't meant to be comparable to D&D classes. A D&D fighter is (most often) set in a dark ages/fantasy setting where their abilities need to revolve around opening up a case on someone.
A Star Wars soldier is a specially trained character who is on an education level beyond that of "Hulk smash!".
Then, as ZSutherland mentioned, critical hits go straight to wound points. It's a definate wakeup call when your character goes into negative levels (or further) due to a blaster discharge.
SW characters get 'defense' that adds to their 'armor class'
DnD characters get armor, that adds to their 'armor class'
DnD characters get magic, that adds to their 'armor class'
DnD characters get spells, that add to their armor class.
Skywalker, true about the BaB, but SW doesn't have a magic user class. Even the Force users are more akin to a cleric type class. (mix of non-lethal magic and melee)
DnD characters get armor, that adds to their 'armor class'
DnD characters get magic, that adds to their 'armor class'
DnD characters get spells, that add to their armor class.
Skywalker, true about the BaB, but SW doesn't have a magic user class. Even the Force users are more akin to a cleric type class. (mix of non-lethal magic and melee)
Kanegrundar
Explorer
I'm also playing in a game that allows a myriad of classes from all sorts of D20 games. I'm going primarily with the Star Wars ruleset. I modified all the non-SW classes to get defense bonuses as they level, as well as changing their skill selections. There have been other modifications I've made to some spells and powers to make them fit in more with the kind of game that I would like to play. So far, it has ran pretty smoothly. I have a Cerean Samurai, a Dhampir (Half-vampire from Ravenloft Denizens of Darkness) Soldier/Bounty Hunter, a high elven jedi guardian/cleric of Elhonna, and a noghri Codan Warrior (a modified Diablo 2 Amazon). With the VP/WP system combat is pretty lethal, and many weapons deal large amounts of damage, this leads to an evening out of the playing field. We noticed that sorcerers and wizards are extremely hard to keep alive in a firefight at early levels, but as the party found out the other night, higher level magic-users with the right feats can be extremely tough.
Throwing it all together without modification, IMO, will lead to a great unbalancing effect. The various system (with the exception of D&D and OA) are not truly meant to be ran together although they do use the same core system. Therefore, if you want the classes to be somewhat close in power with each other you need to do a little work to bring them together under the banner of one system or another (like I did by making all the classes SW classes). Sure, it was a lot of work, but I'm having more fun now than I think I ever have in a RPG before!
Adios,
Kane
Throwing it all together without modification, IMO, will lead to a great unbalancing effect. The various system (with the exception of D&D and OA) are not truly meant to be ran together although they do use the same core system. Therefore, if you want the classes to be somewhat close in power with each other you need to do a little work to bring them together under the banner of one system or another (like I did by making all the classes SW classes). Sure, it was a lot of work, but I'm having more fun now than I think I ever have in a RPG before!
Adios,
Kane
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