SW GMs - Beat this...

[Sugarmouse]

I've been gone for a while, after an embarassing situation with my donation to ENWorld *cough*. However, my thoughts have not strayed far. (Heck - not that I was a frequent poster, or anything.)

So - to the topic at hand.

Beat this for the quickest fall to the Darkside ever:

Set-up: Approximately 4000-5000 BBY - a then fringe world about to be invaded by a newly formed Techno-Union, wishing to court allies within the emergent Sith Empire. ((So I assumed historical flexibility, shoot me. )

The session itself occured about a year or more ago.

The fall to tainted (from 0 to 5 DSPs) occured within 30 minutes of table time, and perhaps 5 minutes of game time.

In the climactic final battle of the session, and in what I can only describe as a headlong dive right into the dark mire, he ignored obvious cries of help in order to go save the Exotic dancer in the place they were staying. (She was a Sith infiltrator, and the pictures I used for her were of Jessica Alba). He did not stand a chance. And it did not stop there.

Frustrated at a pair of Bothan demolition experts in the employ of a Hutt trying to steal the getaway vehicle ahead of the Techno-Union soldiers, he ordered his bodyguards (a pair of Mandalorian soldiers played by the others) to out and out kill them. DSP. (Thats two.)

Failing to slay the frantic pair of Bothans, he engaged them in hand-to-lightsabre combat and proceeded to deflect Blaster shots at them (their own shots, as well as the potshots of TU troopers nearby), to the verbal accompanyment of "*dink*! You like that? *dink* Huh? *dink* And that? *dink* You like it? *dink* and the tear induced mirth of the Table. Ruling extreme agression I gave him a DSP, and then a second when he persisted to give in to his anger to try and kill the two.

Things did not go as planned, and he found himself with the single living Bothan, going at high speed through a forest. Hijinks ensue, and voila, he gives in to his anger and rage again.

Who can top that?

(I checked as much as I could - but it is late, and I am tired.)

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Who can top that?

Great stuff, but since you challenged me I can't resist. I can top that.

No, it isn't a fall to the Dark Side, but it sure is an insanely awesome climactic battle. In fact, I've got two! Both from my Story Hour(set post-RotJ), but only ONE has been written yet.

The one that's already been done was between two party members, one a semi-Jedi and the other a former Imperial soldier and nearly an Emperor's Hand. Through the entire first couple of acts, the two of them are going at it and yelling at each other. The only reason they don't physically kill each other is due to other 'more important' things. But when they finally DO go at it...well, it was just brutal.

The OTHER is one I won't talk about, just because there may be people reading this that read the SH and I don't want to spoil it. Suffice to say, though, there's been one huge fight brewing for a long time and it covers so much ground(and air...) that its great. Also finally opens up a bit more Dark Side temptations and such that have been generally non-existant.

 

[Dav]

. . . he ignored obvious cries of help in order to go save the Exotic dancer in the place they were staying. (She was a Sith infiltrator, and the pictures I used for her were of Jessica Alba).

Oh, come on, that's just not fair! Of course he's going to attempt to save her.

 

[Coredump]

he ignored obvious cries of help in order to go save the Exotic dancer in the place they were staying.

So, he had multiple people that needed saving... and you gave him a DSP for picking one? Unless the character said "Maybe if I save her she will do me..." I am not sure if it is DSP-worthy.

He did not stand a chance.

If that makes a difference, it should be in his favor... how heroic.

Frustrated at a pair of Bothan demolition experts in the employ of a Hutt trying to steal the getaway vehicle ahead of the Techno-Union soldiers, he ordered his bodyguards (a pair of Mandalorian soldiers played by the others) to out and out kill them. DSP. (Thats two.)

So, two guys are trying to steal his ship, and he has his bodyguards try and take them out. And that is a DSP? Now, if they tried to surrender, but he told them to kill them anyway.... but I somehow doubt they were willing to surrender.

Failing to slay the frantic pair of Bothans, he engaged them in hand-to-lightsabre combat and proceeded to deflect Blaster shots at them (their own shots, as well as the potshots of TU troopers nearby), to the verbal accompanyment of "*dink*! You like that? *dink* Huh? *dink* And that? *dink* You like it? *dink* and the tear induced mirth of the Table.

Okay, if the *character* was actually saying that, then I may give a DSP. If the *player* was saying that, I may give bonus XP for humor.

and then a second when he persisted to give in to his anger to try and kill the two.

Not much info, trying to kill them is not DSP-worthy, they were stealing his ship, and shooting at him. Now, if they surrendered, or were helpless.... but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Things did not go as planned, and he found himself with the single living Bothan, going at high speed through a forest. Hijinks ensue, and voila, he gives in to his anger and rage again.

Again, unless 'Hijinks' means the Bothan had surrendered, or was helpless, than I don't know if that was DSP-worthy.

 

[Sugarmouse]

I should explain a little more, Coredump.

The exotic dancer was in no immediate danger, however the cries of help were coming from a burning building.

My comment in regards to him standing a chance was in the face of his choice of rescuing the dancer/sith, and was perhaps poorly written into the context.

It was a landspeeder - and it wasn't his. Technically it did belong to the Hutt, however, it was the only intact vehicle around. He ordered the killing almost immediately, not trying to pursue other options, like sharing. Regardless.

It was his *character* saying it. For us, once you are at the table, what you say is what *you* say. Considering that text is a poor way of qualifying the intent with which he said it, the first DSP was justified (he agreed, and he is our primary SWGM), and so did the second when he ignored a blatant warning from the Force (me) and continued on with his course of anger. And he did have us all in stitches.

Giving in to his anger is a major transgression IMHO.

If you still consider this insufficient then: Different strokes for different folks.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Apparently. I would have probably given a single DSP over the course of that, but I run a less draconian table. If I didn't, I would never get a chance to be the inveterate cut-up that I am. And I'm the GM.

One of my players willingly had his character take 5 DSP to escape certain death. They were at the foot of a dark-side tainted pool, I didn't feel like having him roll up another PC, and it was suitably dramatic that way. Plus we got to have alot of fun next session as they worked with one of the major combatants missing his fightin' arm and trying to heal him up from -9WP in time to do some rescuing.

So far I've only given out those 5 DSP and another DSP earlier for one of the Consulars using Force Strike/Push on a living target. And I'm trying my best. I'd intended one of the foci of the Jedi campaign to be combat against the temptation of the Dark Side ... and I've got a total pristine party of saints, apparently. I've offered free feats for a combat, free faux Force Points for a round, free XP ... everybody I play with is convinced I'm Satan himself, but nobody will take a DSP. Heck, they all almost got slaughtered because they wouldn't strike first while a Dark Jedi whispered Fear to them and nobody would give into it, either.



--fje

 

[Hannibal King]

Hi guys. I was playing the Jedi in that campaign and well...you should have seen that picture of Jessica Alba! I should have got a Dark Side point just for what I was thinking at the time ;-)
Honestly the GM wanted to run a DS campaign so I just went with the flow. It was quite obvious that resisting it would have gotten us killed since the very next adventure involved joining and working for the Sith. Plus the other two players, the 'bodyguards', were Mandolorians with several DSPs each. I never had a chance, so why fight it right?
Alas that campaign came to a crashing end when we had this ridiculously long combat involving dozens upon dozens of Thugs being cut down by my Jedi in a narrow corridor.... which brings me to a recent SW game run by our other 'former' GM in which we had a 5 hour long combat - real time that is! Once again Jedi, lots of Thugs and a narrow corridor.

Just a friendly bit of advice to all the GMs out there, just cause you GM some great games don't think for a moment that your players may pick up something from your GMing style and apply it when they GM. It doesn't happen.
5 straight hours of rolling dice with no plot or interaction! Still have nightmares about it....<shudder>
HK

 

[wingsandsword]

Y'know, it's generally good form in Star Wars GM'ing to tell a player "if you do that, you'll get a Dark Side Point.", and not just start handing them out.

The player was definitely highly questionable, but I wouldn't give as many DSP's. I wouldn't have given a DSP to non-Force Sensitive character for not running into a burning building, despite cries of help, that requires extreme bravery on it's own. I would more likely reward the character who actually ran in with a Force Point.

As for killing the two bothan saboteurs without trying to negotiate, how often in the movies do you see them walk up to obvious goons and start negotiating, and get a dark side point for just shooting. "Aggressive Negotiations" as Anakin would call it (not the best role model for avoiding DSP's, but the point stands). If they surrendered, or were fleeing, or were obvious noncombattants (Bothan demolition experts in the employ of a Hutt who are stealing a speeder aren't noncombattants) then a DSP would be warranted, otherwise it's just being aggressive (but not vicious).

I would never give a Jedi a DSP for deflecting blaster shots. If the bothans had just stopped shooting and fled, they could have lived. Jedi deflecting blasters is using the aggression of somebody else against them.

Maybe it's my d6 Star Wars heritage speaking, but Force Sensitive characters are held to a pretty high standard of moral behavior, while non Force Sensitive characters have to do some pretty heinous things to get a DSP, it isn't clear until late in the story this is even a FS character. Also, just acting in rage and anger isn't grounds for a Dark Side Point unless they are Force Sensitive, and then they generally have to be actually using the Force.

By the way, this isn't the fastest falls to the Dark Side I've ever seen, but I've seen one that was really fast (they used the old d6 Star Wars).

A new player playing a force sensitive smuggler (d6 SW), I warn the player up front that being a FS character carries a high moral weight, that being a smuggler may be incompatible with, but the player wanted Luke and Han rolled up in one package. So, I gave the player the conundrum at his first game that he had to smuggle some wookiee slaves (in fortified chains with stun collars) from Kashyyyk to some mining world (smuggling to avoid Imperial taxation on slaves). I was hoping he'd have a Han moment and free the wookiees, so he could have a wookiee sidekick and be heroic. The player dutifully and produly did the task, ignoring the angry/mournful cries of the wookiee slaves or doing anything to help them, so he got a DSP from that not 10 minutes into the game (I warned him "slaving is a very morally questionable act, do you want to proceed." His reply "It's my job". Welcome to one DSP). So, once he arrives at the mining planet, he decides he needs a better blaster pistol, and some more credits, so he decides to start stalking the streets looking for somebody rich to mug. I then warn him that being a mugger and blasting some random passerby to take their money isn't a good thing, his reply "I do it all the time in D&D". I warn him <i>again</i> that this is not a good act. I recall his reply "It's what adventurers do, blam!" A second DSP. Now, in d6 Star Wars it was a lot easier to fall to the Dark Side, every time you got a DSP you had to roll a d6, and if you rolled under your total number of points, you fell on the spot. Thus, you had a 1:6 chance of falling at just 2 DSP, so when he got his second DSP he had to roll a d6, and up came the one. I told him his character had fallen to the Dark Side, and was no longer suitable as a PC. He got indignant that I was being unfair, that nobody could ever be so much of a "goody two shoes" to not be a darksider, it wasn't fair that I didn't let him be a PC after falling to the Dark Side, and he wasn't going to play in my games again, he said he'd go back to D&D. Good riddance.

 

[Hannibal King]

I think the question here is "Should a character recieve a DSP for his player's state of mind?" In other words during that game I was pretty frustrated with the Bothans, who incidently I had encountered before and was convinced they would never share the speeder, as well as the plot being a little too railroaded for my tastes. So in my frustration I turned to humour 'bouncing blaster bolts with a "dink" sound' and when my dice failed to finish off the last Bothan in a high speed fight aboard the out of control speeder I was angry at my dice. Should this mean my jedi was angry? Hard to say. Maybe in future I'll state my characters frame of mind, even though I as a player I may be chanting in Sith and cursing all my enemies.
This of course is not to be confused with the 'what you say at the table your character says' rule, which sometimes flat out makes no sense to me.
I don't know...anyone got any solutions?
HK

 

[wingsandsword]

This of course is not to be confused with the 'what you say at the table your character says' rule, which sometimes flat out makes no sense to me.
I don't know...anyone got any solutions?

Find another GM, to be honest. I really think the "anything you say your character says" rule some GM's have makes no sense either IMO, and I don't play at a table with that rule (at most, I've seen GM's presume that things are said in-character unless they're blatantly out of character like game mechanic discussions or mentions of real-world events, and if anything questionable or controversial happens like those "ding" remarks they ask if you mean for that to be in game).

This sounds like a pretty big difference in play styles, talk through it with your GM, see if you can come to some agreement. If not, there are a lot of GM's who run Star Wars, hopefully near where you are.