Swift Hunter-like feats and Gestalt

[Kat']

Here's a little question for a nice debate. There are a bunch of feats out there that allow two class levels to stack to determine the effect of a particular class ability. Think Ascetic Knight, Swift Hunter, Daring Outlaw and such. How do those feats perform while used by Gestalt characters? Does a Rogue 5//Swashbuckler 5 with Daring Outlaw have the Sneak Attack and Grace of a 10th level Rogue and 10th level Swashy?

My heart says no, for the sake of all things cheesy enough in DnD 3.5, my mind says "hey, that's how it's written". What's your opinion? Is there an official ruling on this matter?

 

[Elethiomel]

I think the more interesting question isn't "do these stack across gestalt?" but "should they be allowed on one side of the gestalt?". The feats are arguably like the prestige classes that combine two different classes, but just as arguably the results are rather weaker than such a prestige class.

I do not think such feats could let you get more than your HD in benefit, though no such limitation is inherent in the feat description.

 

[Nifft]

I don't think you can ever sum features granted by both sides of Gestalt -- the "accrues at the faster rate" rule sees to that.

Using one of those feats on "one side" seems much more beneficial, and may be broken, but I'd like to see some examples before deciding that. Sneak Attack is nice, but not as nice as gate.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kat']

The question remains and becomes even more interesting if you consider "incomplete" builds. For example (mark the word EXAMPLE, it is not meant to be optimal), Rogue 6 / Swash 6 // Fighter 6 / Invisible Blade 6 with Daring Outlaw would get the full benefit of the feat and have SA as a 12th level Rogue and Grace as a 12th level Swash, no problem.

What happens now if I build Rogue 6 / Fighter 6 // Swash 6 / I.Blade 6 and take Daring outlaw as my 12th level bonus feat?

I do not think such feats could let you get more than your HD in benefit, though no such limitation is inherent in the feat description.

That's exactly my problem.

I don't think you can ever sum features granted by both sides of Gestalt

Neither do I, but what would the "official" position be? The "accrue at faster rate" rule does not contradict the wording of the feat.

 

[Nifft]

Neither do I, but what would the "official" position be? The "accrue at faster rate" rule does not contradict the wording of the feat.

I'd actually argue that it does. Sneak Attack, for example, will often state that it stacks with Sneak Attack granted by another class -- but the Gestalt "accrues" rule overrides that.

I'd argue that this is an identical situation, and the identical rule should apply.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. Scout2/Barbarian2 gestalt... fastest way to Improved Uncanny Dodge? Never.

 

[blargney the second]

I'd let it work as normal on one side, but not across the bridge.

 

[glass]

My heart says no, for the sake of all things cheesy enough in DnD 3.5, my mind says "hey, that's how it's written". What's your opinion? Is there an official ruling on this matter?

When running gestalt I limit effective level for any class feature to actual level. Which, prohibits doubling up with feats (or with normal classes -two different classes giving sneak attack for instance).

IMO, the RAW sorta imply that is what you should do but don't spell it out so it is arguably a houserule.


glass.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Gestalt rules tell the DM to forbid "hybrid" PrCs when running a Gestalt game - Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge, etc.

I think it's not unreasonable to extend that to forbid "hybrid" feats as well.

-Hyp.

 

[Folly]

I believe Nifft is correct in that the hybrid feats give progress of an ability to another class, thus the rule of taking the greater progression applies, but since they have the same its tricker.