Sword Mage vs Rogue vs everybody else...(min-maxing and stacking damage questions)

[Gruns]

Min/Max

Thanks this has been very helpful!

Ok, I'm home looking at the character sheet now. He has an INT of 22 (+6), a +2 fullblade, and iron bands of power (+2 to melee damage). That adds up to +10 with every attack.

One minor issue, can he wear 'iron bands' when he's only proficient in leather? The AV doesn't describe arm slots as an armor type.

I guess I'll have to fight him with tactics, not math.

Yeah, it really isn't that hard to get +10 to damage. He can easily get another +1 with Weapon Focus, and another +3 with Power Attack if he doesn't mind the -2 to hit.
The problem with the math was the +6 from Burning Blade. If he does have an 18 Str, this should be +4.
That said, by choosing to go with the two-handed weapon route, he is sacrificing some AC to achieve this damage. His Con is probably around 11 too, so he's also lacking in the hit point department as well. So while he can dish out striker-like damage, he's also not much better than a striker when it comes to being able to take a hit. I have a feeling brutes and lurkers would tear him apart. If he's the party's only Defender, this could be a problem. But I have a feeling he enjoys his badass character and doesn't care. As long as you're having fun. And if the actual strikers AREN'T having fun, you need to add more "stuff" to your encounters that aren't simply combat. Traps, hazards, obstacles, diplomatic skill challenges, puzzles(Knowledge checks). Put a bad guy sniper on an out of the way ledge that must be dealt with by the ranged powers of your warlock/wizard/ranger/what have you. There's a lot more to the game than simply dealing damage. Ok, not a LOT lot, but there is some other stuff. I wouldn't let his higher than average damage output detract from the game.
Later!
Gruns

 

[monboesen]

While it is unsurprising that the warlock can't keep up in raw damage (as he also has some controller aspect by inflicting conditions) it seems strange that the rogue isn't doing at least as much damage.

At 8th level the rogue should have at minimum Dexterity 20 (+5), a +2 weapon and get combat advantage on most attacks. With a shortsword thats 3d6 + 7 damage (average 18,5).

Compared to the Swordmages 1d12 + 10 damage (average 16,5) or 1d12 + 8 damge (average 14,5) without the cheesy Iron Armbands.

The Warlock ought to be around 2d6 + 7 damage (average 14), not to far from the rogue and the swordmage and with some sort of rider effect in addition to the damage.

 

[James McMurray]

At 8th level the rogue should have at minimum Dexterity 20 (+5), a +2 weapon and get combat advantage on most attacks. With a shortsword thats 3d6 + 7 damage (average 18,5).

He should probably also have the feat that increases sneak attack damage to d8's by now, upping his average to 20.5.

 

[Gruns]

Oh, and...

He should probably also have the feat that increases sneak attack damage to d8's by now, upping his average to 20.5.

And he's also a rogue, so very likely not using a shield in his arm slot so he should grab a set of those umm, Iron Bands of Power.
Now we're at 22.5! And a couple more damage from either CHA or STR, depending on Brutal Scoundrel or Sly Flourish... 24.5 now! And why not a Rapier? 25.5 average damage. Weapon Focus: Light Blade? 26.5! Nothing better to do with tht off hand. May as well hold a dagger and grab Two Weapon Fighting. 27.5 damage per round on average. Etc etc etc...
Later
Gruns

 

[Bond James Bond]

I've got a swordmage (mix-maxed) in my party who is always doing way more damage than either the rogue or the warlock, who are not min-maxed, but have really good stats.

And the Rogue and the Warlock, don't seem to do nearly the damage the SM does.

Just another thought: I seems like you are rolling stats, which also could explain some imbalance you might be expecting.

Other then that, the swordmage as a class does below than average damage - and even d12 +10 base damage is far from being high on lvl 8.

 

[gofargogo]

Yeah we roll all our stats, and he got stunning rolls. This has been very helpful. I've only really played this one campaign and wasn't sure what the averages were for level 8s. As I comb through his character, it seems he just built a very high-damage character. Which means his weakness will be accuracy and defense.

In response about the Rogue, she is very reluctant to use anything but a dagger as that's just who her character is. But the two weapon fighting with short sword might be something she would consider, particularly going up against tougher foes, where stealth isn't quite as important.

 

[DracoSuave]

Dagger is still great for a rogue. +1 to hit above other weapons at the expense of a point or two leads to more consistant damage. Then Daggermaster for crits on 17-20.... dagger is NOT the weapon of suck in 4E when a rogue is in the house.

 

[Webby140]

That said, he tends to read things in his favor, and he maybe unconsciously double counting something. This whole thing came up because he does so much more damage than everyone else at the table, which makes my rogue and warlock feel a little underpowered and useless, while also killing my monsters much faster than I'd anticipated.

I'd watch this player for this exact reason:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchkin_(role-playing_games)

 

[Gruns]

Whoa!

Yeah we roll all our stats, and he got stunning rolls.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! This changes everything. Does this mean he actually has an 22 in STR too?!?
There's a reason the default method is point buy. Munchkins always roll multiple 18's.
Later!
Gruns

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Properly constructed, the Rogue should be doing stupid damage by default. Standard At-Will damage at level 8 with a dagger for a Halfling/Drow Artful Dodger or an Elf/Human Brutal Scoundrel should be 1d4+2d8+11 for an average of 22.5, and this is without really trying. He should also be attacking with +18 to hit vs AC, which I don't think the Swordmage(or anyone) can touch with a 10ft pole. The problem may be that your Rogue isn't agressive and doesn't get combat advantage every round, which I have seen happen.

All this being said, if you want to cheese the game for damage, the Fighter is the way to go. Whether you trick out a Tempest Fighter with a Double Sword, or build an Elf Fullblade Pit Fighter(mine had +23 with standard attacks, +29 when attacking marked enemies, and +35 when I used power attack).