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Swordmage: Isn't it a little bit unbalanced?
- Thread starter Drakan lord
- Start date
Bear in mind that monsters with multiple attacks, attacking NADs consistently and generally doing automatic damage should be fairly common. No defender can maintain marks when unconscious. Artillery and similar creatures should simply blow him to pieces on fort or will (whatever is lower). DMs really shouldn't be afraid to make groups of monsters that are fairly optimal at things they do.
Obryn
Hero
I pretty much agree entirely, with a few caveats...
1) Shielding Swordmages were sideways-nerfed by the new monster damage rules. They still block a lot, but it's not 90%-100% of the damage anymore.
2) Ayup. Although my group's Avenger was at least tied with him.
3) SERIOUSLY terrible. Mine compensated by focusing on a bevy of ally-friendly close bursts. (Sword Burst + Arcane Admixture Thunder + Resounding Thunder = a pretty big deal.) He also had the Wildfire Genasi thing going for more, plus added that big close Thunder burst, Ensnaring Bolts, etc.
Still, his damage was pretty pathetic and he ended up feeling like he was nothing more than an ineffectual damage sponge.
-O
You also forgot they were nerfed very heavily with the loss of white lotus master riposte working with marks as well.
Jack99
Adventurer
Actually, by level 6, a Swordmage should use Decree to keep two marked every encounter.
It's worth noting that to pull this off as a genasi he'd have to start with 12 str, 12 dex, and 20 int. This would leave 2 points, so he probably had a 12 con which would now be a 15. He'd have been better off ditching improved swordmage warding, grabbing Hide Armor proficiency, lowering his dex and raising his con. As it is, he's behind the defender game on healing surges and hp, his mark is less useful (assuming he took shielding), and the handful of swordmage powers that use con for secondary effects are less useful. This also confirms that his Will is based on an 11 in his best will stat.
As others have mentioned, using a variety of enemies will mean that some will target non-AC defenses and your player will be worse than other defenders against them due to hp/healing surge issues.
Tangent:
Honestly, I think the Swordmage is the only defender that does what I'd like defenders to do. In most groups I've seen, the defender has the same AC as the strikers and a point or two over the others and probably has about 2+1/level more hp. And that's assuming the Defender can secondary con and the other character doesn't use con for primary or secondary. Swordmages tend to have high AC and can move around enough to put the enemy in a no-win scenario. Against anyone else, the enemy should probably just attack the defender. I know that sounds like a victory for the defender (he's doing his job, yay!), but the group is getting almost 0 advantage from the defender taking the hits because his defenses and hp are pretty much the same. I mean sure if you have a controller that doesn't secondary con, he might actually need some defending, but that's pretty rare.
Defenders should have significantly higher defenses and hp than the rest of the group, area attacks shouldn't ignore marks (i.e. defenders should get to punish enemies that want to use area attacks even if they include the defender so that the defender's role can be enlarged), and their absence should be noticeable in the way a leader's absence is.
Also note that swordmages are one of the classes with the lowest damage. Level 12 swordmages still doing 1d8+single-digit-damage-mod are very common. They also have almost no multiple-attack-against-single-enemy powers and area attack powers are generally worth less than multiple-attack-against-single-enemy powers
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Pickles JG
First Post
Defenders also have more healing surges than other classes & this is what lets them take hits fight after fight. Most other roles can take a pounding in just one fight befor they are stressing over a shortage of surges. This is only really noticable if you play more than 3 encounters in an adventuring day ie not in LFR for example.
I do agree defenders are the least missed roles which is why the high damage output of Fighters or the heals of Paladin's are much appreciated. Also the extra control of warden's can be useful. (Controllers seem to be something where adding a second one more than doubles the benefit.) Shielding swordmages are the most defensive defenders, if they do not get too picked on themselves & so need the high defences to cover when this happens.
I do agree defenders are the least missed roles which is why the high damage output of Fighters or the heals of Paladin's are much appreciated. Also the extra control of warden's can be useful. (Controllers seem to be something where adding a second one more than doubles the benefit.) Shielding swordmages are the most defensive defenders, if they do not get too picked on themselves & so need the high defences to cover when this happens.
Drakan lord
First Post
Thanks everyone for the advices, he is the only defender of the party, he got double aegis (he is a interior power player even when he doesn't want to) and he is a shielding swordmage.
The damage is not a problem . . . in the party there is a barbarian, a thief and an avenger, so the most important thing was to have a defender (he was the 4th striker before) and the last player is the leader.
I'll try to invent new ways to hit him . .. but I am sure he found some ways to improve also his other defenses.
The damage is not a problem . . . in the party there is a barbarian, a thief and an avenger, so the most important thing was to have a defender (he was the 4th striker before) and the last player is the leader.
I'll try to invent new ways to hit him . .. but I am sure he found some ways to improve also his other defenses.
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