Swordmages and half-orcs hit the streets!

[Alaric_Argent]

It has the Implement keyword, and not Weapon keyword.

Which means, you don't get to add prof. bonus to attack, that justifies the "vs Reflex".

If it's broken? I have no idea.

All I know is that when I first heard about Swordmages I didn't give a damn... now all of a sudden, I want to play one.

Yes, and it makes the Spiral Tower more appealing, since you use the longsword as an implement. Thus enters the proficiency bonus, if I read it aright.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

come on people we are now into july...anymore spoiler info?

 

[keterys]

Yes, and it makes the Spiral Tower more appealing, since you use the longsword as an implement. Thus enters the proficiency bonus, if I read it aright.

Not as far as I can tell, no. Can you cite what gave you that impression? I suspect you don't, however, in the same way that you don't get the +2 hit bonus from using a quarterstaff.

 

[Alaric_Argent]

Not as far as I can tell, no. Can you cite what gave you that impression? I suspect you don't, however, in the same way that you don't get the +2 hit bonus from using a quarterstaff.

Mostly, I understood it this way because longsword proficiency is a prerequisite for the WotST paragon path, and you must be proficient with a weapon to gain the proficiency bonus (PHB p. 219). Otherwise, it seems like you're just carrying around an oversized implement. Further, there are two spells in the parargon path that have the "weapon" keyword, and when casting either of those two, the caster should therefore get the proficiency bonus (per the sidebar on PHB p. 275).

I grant you, more generally it doesn't seem to apply. If you can cast any other of your spells with the longsword as if it is an implement, does the keyword change for those spells change or get inherited? This is one of many areas which I wish were clearer. We may have to wait for FR to come out, unless anyone else cares to chime in.

 

[keterys]

You'd get it for the 'Weapon' spells certainly, but as far as I can tell you don't get it for any Implement spells.

Ie, almost all of them. Much like not getting the quarterstaff's proficiency bonus. Though boy would that be a reason to be a staff mage

 

[Alaric_Argent]

It is also a bit strange to me that you can cast spells with the implement keyword without using an implement, but using the implement makes them more effective (PHB p. 56). My question is, how, exactly? A character using a non-magical weapon s/he is proficient with gets a prof. bonus that is a set number. Yet "using a nonmagical implement confers no benefit." (PHB p. 221) This balanced how, exactly?

 

[keterys]

Proficiency bonus counteracts attacking against AC, because AC gets armor added to it compared to, say, Reflex.

So Implement attacks don't need proficiency bonus.

 

[Incenjucar]

Weapon-based powers tend to be attacking AC, which is usually two points higher than defense.

A weapon-user can also just punch someone in the face instead of use a weapon.

There really just isn't enough of a difference to matter here.

 

[Zsig]

You're both correct, I think you're just misunderstanding each other's points.

For powers/spells with the Weapon keyword, you add up your prof. bonus (provided you are proficient with the weapon).

For powers with the Implement keyword, it's just an (as you suggested) oversized implement.

That being said, I also played the Swordmage on a local event this past weekend and all i have to say is that i liked it alot (and the people on the table -maybe with the exception of the DM- liked it alot as well).

I just felt it doesn't deal much damage compared to other defenders, and it kinda feels like it's tending towards the controller (much like the paladin seems to be leaning towards the leader).

I loved the Dimensional Warp (minor action!), as well as the Aegis of Shielding (the DM checked my sheet everytime i used it cuz he couldn't believe it).

Also, there's one minor trick that doesn't seem to be posted here that the Swordmage can use (a class feature), I can't remember the name now, but he can sorta manipulate his sword at distance and bring it to his hand (IIRC, from up to 3 squares).

 

[Stalker0]

If the Swordmage is an int primary class, I have no idea why it would get a straight up bonus to AC.

Just give it basic light armors and your set to go. Heck its still better than heavy armor because you have no ACP and movement restrictions. A lot of people are forgetting that part, if Light Armor AC = Heavy Armor AC, light armor wins because of its other advantages.