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Sylrae Alt. Systems.

Sylrae

First Post
This is a page for any Alt. Systems that are not being worked on That I use in my games, IE, I consider them finished.

If the Rule was made by someone else, I'll try to provide a link, or at least a name. I'll also list the original if my rule is an alteration of someone else's system (even if its just via inspiration)

This is here mainly for organization's sake.

Table of Contents

01. Favored Class
02. Feats
03. Class Skills
04. Skill Points
05. Stat Retweaking
06. Disablement, Death and Dying
07. Base Hit Points
08. Fractional BAB
09. Save Formulas.
10. Escaping a Grapple
11. Attribute Bonuses By Level

1. Favored Class
This is to make Favored Class be a usable rule.
Favored Classes still exist, though their in-game effect is different.
For every 5 levels in a character's favored class, they gain a bonus feat.
*Races with favored class (Any), count their first class as favored, not their highest leveled class.
*If for some reason a race has multiple favored classes that could apply (you never know), the first of those classes taken is the favored.
*Racial classes never count as a favored class.

2. Feats
This was yoinked from Pathfinder
Characters gain bonus feats at every odd level, instead of 1, 3, and every third level after.

3. Class Skills
We used a variety of house rules about Class Skills because the base rules were so goofy. Heres the best one.
All skills cost 1 skill point to buy (assuming it can be bought with skill points by the character). Class Skills are skills which provide a +3 competence bonus to rolls. This competence bonus does not count towards number of ranks for prerequisites, and if multiple classes grant the same class skill, the bonuses do not stack.
If you have a level in a class granting use magic device (or another exclusive skill) you can buy points in it any level thereafter, not just when gaining levels in That class.

4. Skill Points

This is to make all the Stats be needed.
The number of skill points a character gets per level is equal to their Intelligence Modifier + their Wisdom Modifier + Half the number of skill points listed on the class page, +1 . The reason for this change is outlined in the next section.
I'm using Kerrick's Max Ranks = level.

5. Stat retweaking

This is a combination of a logic rule, and a rule to make no stat completely useless to any character. (Charisma)
Strength: No longer applies to attack rolls. There is a feat to allow it to apply to attack rolls with Heavy Weapons (such as a greatsword, greataxe, etc.)
Dexterity: Applies to melee attack rolls. The Weapon Finesse feat allows you to use Dexterity to damage in place of strength with finesse weapons.(This change is for logic reasons, you don't really aim with strength)
Constitution:
No Change
Intelligence:No Change
Wisdom: No Longer Applies to Will Saves. Applies to Skill Points (Outlined Above).
Charisma: Applies to Will Saves(This is because the default mechanics, Nothing depends on charisma - other than skill bonuses)

6. Disablement, Death and Dying
This is inspired by 4e dying rules, combined with the dying rules I've been using for years.
When a character reaches 0 hit points, they are unconscious but stable. A character with less than 0 hit points is dying.
Disabled: A Character with less than 1/2 their constitution score in Hit Points is disabled. They can take only 1 standard or move action per round, or they take 1d3 points of damage.
Regaining Consciousness: A Character at 0 hit points regains consciousness in 1d3 hours, at which point they gain 1 hit point.
Dying: when it becomes a character's turn, if they are dying, they make a Fortitude Save. What happens depends on their total for the Fortitude Save.
10 or less: The character takes 1d3 damage.
11-19: The character stays the same (no change,make another Fortitude Save next round).
20: The character is stable They regain 1 hit point per round until reaching 0 hit points.
Death: A character who reaches - Their Constitution Score in hit points is dead.

7. Base Hit Points
This is to stop characters dying from a single hit at level one. Its more elegant than always starting characters at level 3+.
All characters have a base amount of hit points, to which class hit points are added on top.
The number of of base hit points is equal to 9 + (Constitution score/2). This generates 10-18 For humans.
You don't get max hit points at level 1.

8. Fractional BAB
The total BAB of a multilass character is not gotten by adding values from a table. Instead, you add the Fractions together, and then round down.

9. Save Formulas
There are a finite number of Save types. Instead of listing all the values, classes will list the Type, as either Good, Bad, or Medium.
Bad: 1/3 per level.
Medium: 1/2 per level.
Good: 2/3 per level.
(This makes the good saves slightly better, reaching 13.33 at level 20 instead of reaching 12. It makes saves for multiclass be cleaner though..)

10. Escaping a Grapple
When trying to escape a grapple, all size penalties (for being the smaller of the two creatures) apply in reverse to escape artist checks. This means that a small creature gets a +1 to Escape Artist checks while trying to escape a grapple with a medium creature.

11. Attribute Bonuses By level
At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter (8, 12, etc) The character gains an additional 2 Attribute points for their character to place wherever they want, with the restriction that both points must be applied to a different ability score.
 
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Kerrick

First Post
I was going to suggest posting your stuff to a new thread, all together. I've only got a couple comments... granting a feat every 5 levels for favored class is good, but in conjunction with giving everyone a feat every other level, that might be too much. I personally am opposed to the 1 feat/2 levels thing for two reasons: a) it makes fighters not so special; and b) monsters get enough feats as it is (and I'd really rather prefer to keep them and characters on the same ruleset, so it's easier to make monsters with class levels and you don't have to learn two different systems).

For skills, I use the Pathfinder system (which I actually developed and posted a couple weeks before they did); all skills are 1 rank (max = level), and if the skill appears on any of you class skill lists, you get a one-time +3 bonus to that skill. Skill points are not multiplied by 4 at first level, which makes things SO much easier - doing monsters is a snap now, and you don't have to worry about which class came first when doing multiclass PCs.
 

Sylrae

First Post
granting a feat every 5 levels for favored class is good, but in conjunction with giving everyone a feat every other level, that might be too much. I personally am opposed to the 1 feat/2 levels thing for two reasons:
Maybe the two together are a bit much.. Standard feats per level? I always found you never had quite enough feats (unless you were a fighter).. lol

a) it makes fighters not so special;
The fighter would now be getting an extra 3 feats by 20. no?

b) monsters get enough feats as it is (and I'd really rather prefer to keep them and characters on the same ruleset, so it's easier to make monsters with class levels and you don't have to learn two different systems).
Monsters get the extra feats too...

For skills, I use the Pathfinder system (which I actually developed and posted a couple weeks before they did); all skills are 1 rank (max = level), and if the skill appears on any of you class skill lists, you get a one-time +3 bonus to that skill. Skill points are not multiplied by 4 at first level, which makes things SO much easier - doing monsters is a snap now, and you don't have to worry about which class came first when doing multiclass PCs.
That does sound simpler, but there are a few issues with that.
A) That messes up all the existing DCs, and they all need to be re-figured out...
B) I dont want to use a reduced skill list. I've tried the pathfinder list, and I've tried my own reduced list (which was a bit smaller than pathfinder and took some inspiration from white-wolf) > the players oddly enough didnt like the reduced list > they could never figure out which skills to use when when they were that general. they were like:"do I use acrobatics, or athletics? I'm confused!". Often, they would look through the list and have absolutely no idea which skill applied. it was a nightmare. It made perfect sense to me, but they didnt get it when I started combining things. It took 4 sessions for them to start remembering they would use Stealth for both hide AND move silently.. *sigh*

I have a possible solution to the x4 at level 1 thing. Just use a constant. (just came up with this)
Smallest extra skills for level 1: 2*3 = 6
Biggest extra skills for level 1: 8*3 = 24
6+24=30
30/2=15.
So at level 1, give everyone 15+(skill points per level)
The rogue will bitch, but not nearly as much as if they only got 8 skill points instead of 32.
The Wizard will jump for joy and not needing to scrounge up all his Int to buy a could points in knowledge skills.
The Bard and Ranger will barely notice a difference.
 

Kerrick

First Post
The fighter would now be getting an extra 3 feats by 20. no?
I guess... but that would be 21 feats for a human!

Monsters get the extra feats too...
That's my point. Have you ever tried to make a high-HD monster? Try it sometime, and see how fast you run out of logical feats and start plugging in things like the +2/+2s, Iron Will, or (the default filler feat) Toughness. Dinosaurs in particular fall into this trap - they've got Toughness x3 and x4.

That does sound simpler, but there are a few issues with that.
A) That messes up all the existing DCs, and they all need to be re-figured out...
Only slightly, and I've already done that. See, with everyone getting a +3 bonus, it already accounts for the "level +3" max of the old system - so a PC will still have the same chance of hitting a DC 15 check as before. PrCs and feats, which have rank requirements, would need to be adjusted though.

B) I dont want to use a reduced skill list. I've tried the pathfinder list, and I've tried my own reduced list (which was a bit smaller than pathfinder and took some inspiration from white-wolf) > the players oddly enough didnt like the reduced list > they could never figure out which skills to use when when they were that general. they were like:"do I use acrobatics, or athletics? I'm confused!". Often, they would look through the list and have absolutely no idea which skill applied. it was a nightmare. It made perfect sense to me, but they didnt get it when I started combining things. It took 4 sessions for them to start remembering they would use Stealth for both hide AND move silently.. *sigh*
No offense, but that sounds more like dumb players. I mean, how hard is it to remember Stealth covers Hide and Move Silently?

I have a possible solution to the x4 at level 1 thing. Just use a constant. (just came up with this)
...
So at level 1, give everyone 15+(skill points per level)
The rogue will bitch, but not nearly as much as if they only got 8 skill points instead of 32.
The Wizard will jump for joy and not needing to scrounge up all his Int to buy a could points in knowledge skills.
The Bard and Ranger will barely notice a difference.
Think about it. You already have a constant - +3. Adding a +3 bonus means they don't have to spend as many ranks in a given skill to get the same effect, AND they can spread all those ranks they were formerly using to max out class skills to buy ranks in cross-class skills.

Let's take the wizard. At L1, he'd have 4*(2+Int); we'll say 15 Int for the sake of argument, which gives him 16 points. In 3.5, he would most likely max out Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), and Spellcraft, and take one other Knowledge skill. That's it, kaput, done - he's already blown his wad.

Course, under the new system, he'd have 4 skill points, which also gives him only four skills... but I also boosted all the 2+Int classes to 4+Int. So now, our wizard friend has 6 skill points to spread around. He can take Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Perception, Search, Spellcraft, and some other miscellaneous skill that fits his background. Best of all, his class skills get a +3 bonus.

I've found, over the course of revising the monsters, that this system works very well - all I have to do to figure out total skill points is take the base number and add the Int bonus. Max ranks? The Hit Die total. All I do then is assign a number of skills (which is usually the same number they've already got, after combining), max them out, add the bonuses, and I'm done. I had to tweak a few skill point totals (outsiders get 6+Int, monstrous humanoids, giants, and undead get 4), but now I can burn through a skills entry in no time.
 

Sylrae

First Post
I dunno, the number of feats doesnt sound all that bad. I definitely agree that there are not enough monster feats. If you start looking outside the MM & PHB its better though. there are some nifty feats in Savage Species if I recall correctly.

As for the alt. skill system, yours does sound pretty good. I dont see the skills getting worked in for tomorrow, but I can always make the plyers do skills over again when i do it. lol.
 

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