T1 Moathouse adapted to Torchbearer
Manbearcat
Legend
Yeah, while I'm hitting "the busy season" for my life (which makes me less apt to post/get involved in conversations), the reality is that I'm mostly checked out at this point. I don't have the patience, mental stamina, or resilience I once did so the very stray thread like this is likely the extent of my posting.
I'm glad to help out. Specific design talk was the main reason I started posting regularly on ENworld around 15 years ago.
AnotherGuy
Hero
This is not the thread but since many here are TB fans - I'd thought I'd ask. I have not played TB but do have the 1st edition of the rules and have skimmed them and I like what I have seen so far. I do intend to play some time soon. Do you recommend I get the 2nd edition rather? Is it quite different from 1st edition?
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Manbearcat
Legend
The easy answer to this is, while 1e was overwhelmingly homage to B/X (while being turned up to 11), 2e has been much more Burning Wheel-ified. 2e is more heroic, more thematically hefty, and more extra rules (like BW!).
There are a lot of new expansion rules that you probably won't use and a few that you likely will or at least might (like the Toll and Role rules for Journey and maybe Basecamp). The classes and magic system has been changed significantly (plenty of nerfs), Weapons updated/changed, Exhausted condition changed, Nature questions changed at chargen, tables are 3d6 now vs 2d6, some other gear changes (like the Ob test to purchase torches), and there is a generally more Norse vibe to the game. And its now book(s) instead of book (and a whole lot more pagecount).
Some folks like 1e better. Others like 2e better. I'm in neither camp.
If you're looking for a leaner, more dark and brutal B/X game on the Mouse Guard engine, go TB1. If you want a thematically heftier, more heroic, more Tolkein-ey version of TB (with a LOT more rules options)...go TB2.
niklinna
satisfied?
I'll add one factor to @Manbearcat's great summary, with the major proviso that I have no experience with Torchbearer 1. The 2nd edition books are in my opinion pretty badly written and organized. The material isn't presented in a way that sticks in my brain, so I found I had to go back to the books often—and then couldn't quickly find what I was looking for because it was in unexpected places! Also, the so-called Dungeoneer's Handbook is not actually the only book a player needs—it only contains rules for character creation and advancement, and basic mechanics for skills and wises and such. Combat and other important player-facing material is in a second book.
I had looked at the original Torchbearer once or twice but it never really grabbed me - although I'm a huge BW fan.
Apparently it's not a coincidence that 2e has grabbed me pretty hard!
(I'm also a huge JRRT/LotR fan.)
Neat thread! I ran the Moathouse in Torchbearer for one of my groups in 2013 or 2014 and we had a blast with it. I statted up the monsters as prep, but otherwise ran it more or less straight from the module. In my (admittedly biased) experience, running/converting modules on the fly in Torchbearer is not hard, especially if the module includes challenges that aren't just combat. For my tastes, a module like The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, which has a sort of Scooby-Do mystery vibe to it, has actually been more entertaining in Torchbearer than B/X D&D because there's a lot to do an investigate that plays to Torchbearer's skill system.
That said, I think Torchbearer tends to play better with smaller dungeons. In D&D, the Moathouse is a pretty modestly sized dungeon, whereas I think it's on the verge of being too big for Torchbearer. The Caves of Chaos from B2 could support an entire Torchbearer campaign.
That said, I think Torchbearer tends to play better with smaller dungeons. In D&D, the Moathouse is a pretty modestly sized dungeon, whereas I think it's on the verge of being too big for Torchbearer. The Caves of Chaos from B2 could support an entire Torchbearer campaign.
@Thor
Thanks for dropping into the thread!
Thanks for dropping into the thread!
This is what I've been experiencing. In the sessions I'm running, I'm finding that the skill system, and the conflict system, make dungeon situations interesting and entertaining that I would have struggled to bring to life using classic D&D or Rolemaster.
Manbearcat
Legend
For the same reason + @Thor 's invocation of "TB does smaller dungeons best" is why I can get away with very slim and agile, point-crawl prep for my dungeons/wilderness crawls in TB.
As long as you deftly cover the bases (which I outlined above) in TB's Adventure Design, you can easily get away with prep that is only slightly more intensive than something like Apocalypse World's Threat Map handling (with Threat moves being the analogue for TB Twists).
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