D&D 5E Tactics in combat

[Paraxis]

Not until 4E came out.

It is the default use for knowledge skills in 3rd edition. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm

In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster.

 

[Sunseeker]

Not until 4E came out.

Logically, PCs should have little knowledge of monsters except first hand experience. Monsters kill people, even other adventurers. So who came back and told everyone about all of the monsters? And if someone did, how come the stories are not distorted as time goes on and they are told and retold? There might be quite a bit of knowledge on common monsters like goblins and orcs, but most monsters shouldn't be common.

Who said it was common? The fact that your character knows something about it means the information is probably rare. Rarity of information can also be set by a higher DC. Likely, much like the explorers of old, someone ventured off into the woods and was able to study a creature, somehow. Also, who says the information isn't distorted?

I'm pretty stingy with specifics, but there's a big gap between "What the heck is that thing!?" and "I know it's secret weaknesses!"

 

[KarinsDad]

Short of monsters so rare that they are literally going extinct when you defeat them, a reasonably good intelligence or wisdom check, especially by someone trained in the respective area, would be able to know something about them.

Maybe, but would it be something useful for combat?

And what does "trained in the respective area" mean? Maybe clerics might know some things about undead, but giants? Who fights giants and lives to tell about it? Who fights dragons and lives to tell about it? Who fights bulettes or purple worms or death knights or vampires or invisible stalkers?

And how does this knowledge get passed down? Word of mouth, or does a PC have to go to adventuring college to learn about this stuff? None of the backgrounds in the PHB mention adventuring college.

I would think that a lot of "monster knowledge" would be distorted by the passage of time, fire side exaggerated tales, etc. It really does not make sense that PCs would be experts on monsters until they actually face them (and maybe even not then if the PCs stun lock them or some such).

 

[SirAntoine]

Short of monsters so rare that they are literally going extinct when you defeat them, a reasonably good intelligence or wisdom check, especially by someone trained in the respective area, would be able to know something about them.

In general, little is known about monsters by the common people. Monsters should have a frequency in the MM, common, uncommon, rare, or very rare. It is up to the DM to decide which monsters have been seen in a given area, what is known widely about any monsters in particular, and any exaggerated rumors there are.

 

[KarinsDad]

It is the default use for knowledge skills in 3rd edition. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm

In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster.

Ah yes. I had forgotten about that in 3E. Course, it's the name and one piece of information if the DC is made, two pieces of information for DC +5, etc. So for DC 25, a PC would find out that he is fighting a Fire Giant and that it is immune to fire (or alternatively, he is fighting a Fire Giant and that it is vulnerable to cold), but not both pieces of information unless he makes a DC 30 check.

So an explicit rule for setting the DC like this does not exist in 5E (TMK unless there is one in the DMG). Considering bounded accuracy, what should the DC for knowing something about a fire giant be in 5E?

 

[Sunseeker]

Maybe, but would it be something useful for combat?

Maybe, depends on if you character would know about it. Depends on how well you roll.

And what does "trained in the respective area" mean? Maybe clerics might know some things about undead, but giants? Who fights giants and lives to tell about it? Who fights dragons and lives to tell about it? Who fights bulettes or purple worms or death knights or vampires or invisible stalkers?

I could come up with a list of possibilities. Suffice to say: there are a lot of ways to gain this information.

And how does this knowledge get passed down? Word of mouth, or does a PC have to go to adventuring college to learn about this stuff? None of the backgrounds in the PHB mention adventuring college.

Acolytes, spending long hours studying in an order.
Nobles, having access to high education.
Folk Heroes, presumably having traveled far and wide.
Entertainers, same as folk heroes, seeing out song and stories to well, entertain.
Hermits, having lived in a remote and isolated location, the natural beasts even some extreme ones may have come to accept their presence there.
Outlander, much like above, this person has wandered the world and learned about it.
Sage, who the background even states spends a lot of time studying.
Criminial, eavesdropping on conversations, stealing valuable tomes of knowledge, etc...

Honestly I feel like you're either A: not familiar with the material or B: have no imagination. I'm starting to feel like I'm being trolled.

I would think that a lot of "monster knowledge" would be distorted by the passage of time, fire side exaggerated tales, etc. It really does not make sense that PCs would be experts on monsters until they actually face them (and maybe even not then if the PCs stun lock them or some such).

Who said experts? I haven't said experts. I said "you might know something" about them. You might know that a troll's favorite snack is in fact, sauteed gnome, fat lot of good that will do you in combat though.

 

[SirAntoine]

Ah yes. I had forgotten about that in 3E. Course, it's the name and one piece of information if the DC is made, two pieces of information for DC +5, etc. So for DC 25, a PC would find out that he is fighting a Fire Giant and that it is immune to fire (or alternatively, he is fighting a Fire Giant and that it is vulnerable to cold), but not both pieces of information unless he makes a DC 30 check.

So an explicit rule for setting the DC like this does not exist in 5E (TMK unless there is one in the DMG). Considering bounded accuracy, what should the DC for knowing something about a fire giant be in 5E?

DC 10 for common, DC 17 for uncommon, DC 24 for rare, and DC 31 for very rare monsters.

 

[KarinsDad]

I could come up with a list of possibilities. Suffice to say: there are a lot of ways to gain this information.

There are a lot of ways to rationalize handing out free info on a die roll. That does not mean that the rationalization makes sense.

Acolytes, spending long hours studying in an order.
Nobles, having access to high education.
Folk Heroes, presumably having traveled far and wide.
Entertainers, same as folk heroes, seeing out song and stories to well, entertain.
Hermits, having lived in a remote and isolated location, the natural beasts even some extreme ones may have come to accept their presence there.
Outlander, much like above, this person has wandered the world and learned about it.
Sage, who the background even states spends a lot of time studying.
Criminial, eavesdropping on conversations, stealing valuable tomes of knowledge, etc...

Uh huh. Gotta love those criminals eavesdropping on other folk who are capable of accurately talking about monster abilities.

Honestly I feel like you're either A: not familiar with the material or B: have no imagination. I'm starting to feel like I'm being trolled.

Yet another argument about the person you are replying to and not the topic on hand. Talk about trolling.

 

[Sunseeker]

In general, little is known about monsters by the common people. Monsters should have a frequency in the MM, common, uncommon, rare, or very rare. It is up to the DM to decide which monsters have been seen in a given area, what is known widely about any monsters in particular, and any exaggerated rumors there are.

Isn't that exactly what I said I did? Determine how much a player knows about the monster based on their character and their check?

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I just ran a tactical 5E combat, some of the things that made it so were:

- Elevation: slow river with deeper swimming holes, high river banks, steep shingle path, rock out cropping, trees, taller tree.
- Spread out opening positions: the preceding wilderness chase resulted in the PCs not being grouped for easy buffing.
- Cover: the opposing Ettin used an obelisk and the river bank contour successfully to thwart the Elven archer a couple of times.
- Terrain opportunities: both PCs and monsters took attempts at jumping, climbing, balancing, swimming and sneaking about.
- Dialogue: not attempted but that option was there. Also the Ettin was fighting to escape not kill, well not until his pet was killed anyway.
- Reinforcements: Sadly the Ettin got only a lone Orc, but still the PCs knew there were Orcs about so they withdrew quickly after winning.
- Unusual foes: The ranger had a harder time using stealth on the Ettin and the cleric got a nice dose of disease from a death-dog mid-battle. Also the paladin got a lesson in the difference between a challenge 4 foe and level 3 PC.
- Combat options: The paladin made good use of dodge initially and the Ettin tried unsuccessfully to shove him off the ledge a couple of times. There were also chances to throw/drop/roll rocks. Now I think about it grappling and shoving prone into the river would've been a good option for either side too.

Basically take the time to sketch a half decent encounter map. I searched for hills and rivers on pinterest and merged features from a couple of nice pictures together. Took me 3-5 minutes all up, it's a functional sketch - no oil painting.