Tactics of the Illusionist

[Gallo22]

Simulating invisi-- (sputter) Well good grief! I suppose he also disallows fireball spells because they simulate torches? Disallows spear attacks because they simulate daggers on long sticks? Disallows a disguise skill attempt because it simulates someone else's appearance?!

OK, so maybe those aren't all perfect parallels. But, sheesh, give me a break! The creative application of illusion is the one aspect of that specialty class that should be rewarded, not penalized. It's not like you tried to cast "an illusion that I look invisible."

How very, very shortsighted of your DM. I pity you.

You hit the nail on the head. The reason gamers think illusion spells are not any good is because so many DM's won't let their players be creative. As a DM myself I give tons of EX for players who think outside the "magical" box.

Gallo22

 

[tarchon]

In last week's Arcana Unearthed game, we used Obscuring Mist in combination with Ghost Sound and Illusory Creature to really screw up a group of bandits who had ambushed us. Using Ghost Sound and Minor Image/Major Image, etc. to distract enemies is a very effective tactic.

My last character was a bard, and I used <i>Ghost Sound</i> and <i>Sculpt Sound</i> for illusory effects regularly, often combined with Disguise and Bluff. As mentioned, I didn't bother learning any visual illusion spells. GS was good for distractions when sneaking around, among other things. I used it to create fanfares, sounds of battle (making our party sound like a massive assault force), and such too. And it was always useful for pranking other players.

 

[Old Drew Id]

I played an illusionist/alchemist in a fantasy crime-syndicate game at one point. Our target for a particular mission was to destroy a shipment of cargo coming in at the docks one night. The docks were heavily guarded because the enemy knew that we were likely to attack the shipment. I can't remember all of the details of the mission or the combat, but i *do* remember that I cast the illusion of a fire in the dock-house at one point. Then, if I remember correctly, the guards determined that fire was fake. Which made them also ignore the *real* fire that I started elsewhere, because they believe that was fake as well. Long story short, you can sometimes use your illusions *backwards* to great effect, by getting the enemy to disbelieve reality.

Also, on a more "vicious" use of illusions, in a Star Wars d20 game, I played a Force-user with some serious illusion skills that was effectively an illusionist. During one combat which broke out next to a busy intersection in an underground tunnel, with speeder-cars and bikes zooming down this tunnel at high speed, she created an illusion of the ceiling caving in directly over the road. The speeding motorists (just random 1st-level ordinaries) had no prayer of making the saving throw, so they all believed the illusion, even though all of the higher-level enemies could see through it. But those poor motorists believed the ceiling was caving in, so they all started hitting their brakes and swerving off the road and smashing into each other, running over the enemies, etc. It ended up decimating the ranks of our enemies and probably saving the party's collective hide. I mean, sure, dozens of innocent motorists were killed in the process, and there were dark side points awarded, but hey...effective illusion.

Oh yeah, in that same campaign, she also perfected a tactic of tossing illusionary thermal-detonators into groups of stormtroopers. Great way to get the enemy to scatter.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Do the rules state this explicitly - that a particular kind of looking at an illusion counts as interaction - or is this your personal interpretation?

Actually, you've got a point. Looking at something isn't really interacting with it. But moving through it -- or attacking through it -- is. Thus, you can't just magic up mist and have total concealment, 50% miss chance, automatically, though you could dissuade people from trying to attack you because it looks like you're shrouded in mist, so they think they'll have the miss chance. But attacking through it, or moving through it, almost definately counts as interaction (feeling the moisture, seeing the precise swirls when you move, watching the shadows, etc.), and so if they attack you anyway, they'd get a will save.

Yes, the mud is silent

But is the creation of mud silent? I mean, aside from the noise of you casting the spell, spells themselves make noise when they go off. Fireballs go WOOSH, ligtning bolts go BOOM, and puddles of mud go GLORP. You can make something look like a patch of mud, but if you do it right in front of them, and it is silent, it's going to have a suspicious absence of GLORP (just adding Ghost Sound solves the problem, but you'd have to have it quickened to do it in the same round). Spells make noise when they come into effect, I think...even spells like Charm Person make a little tinkle of bells, I'd say, unless it was cast as a Silent Spell (which also means you don't have to speak).

If certain spells don't make noise when they go off, it seems like these are the exception, and should be pointed out, right?

I don't think I'm being harsh, I just think I'm not giving Minor Image the ability to look like a spell being cast. Is that really so bad, when you can singlehandedly generate enough solid gold bricks to fill as many carts as you have on hand?

If you're working the illusion around yourself, for example, there's no reason you can't add the sounds personally -- who among us hasn't pantomimed projectile vomiting in some joke setting? "Blarrrgh!" Or have someone hiding behind the corner adding "ugh" and "argh" sounds every so often (just make sure there's plenty of distance between the actors and the audience).

That works, but I'd call for a Perform (acting) check or something. It's a far gry from going "Blarrrgh!" to sounding like your vomiting....speaking as an actor.

 

[Driddle]

re vomit illusion:
That works, but I'd call for a Perform (acting) check or something. It's a far gry from going "Blarrrgh!" to sounding like your vomiting....speaking as an actor.

OK. It's your game. (shrug) But you'd better give a bonus on that skill roll -- special effects tend to support each other, after all. "Blargh" (difficult to portray in text here) is going to be much more effective working in tandem with the illusion of spewing, while at the same time the illusion is going to look more realistic with any added sound effect at all.

Taking this as an example for argument, I think you're trying to be too difficult with rules interpretations. Is it really *that* important for the PC to fail in this attempt, or should he be given the benefit for putting together a nifty effects package on the fly? ... I lean more in favor of the latter than the former.

 

[Bulldogc]

But is the creation of mud silent? I mean, aside from the noise of you casting the spell, spells themselves make noise when they go off. Fireballs go WOOSH, ligtning bolts go BOOM, and puddles of mud go GLORP. You can make something look like a patch of mud, but if you do it right in front of them, and it is silent, it's going to have a suspicious absence of GLORP (just adding Ghost Sound solves the problem, but you'd have to have it quickened to do it in the same round). Spells make noise when they come into effect, I think...even spells like Charm Person make a little tinkle of bells, I'd say, unless it was cast as a Silent Spell (which also means you don't have to speak).

thats sorta what the save entitles. basicly its seeing do u realise that this thing doesnt exist. if u cast it in front of an ogre warrior then hes probly not gona realize that that was an illusionary spell. for all he knows its a real spell with real effects.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Great tactics for low level illusions:

you (or a sneaky ally) dismount from your horse on the side away from suspected opponents and do something innocuous like take a leak. While obscured by a tree, cast an illusion of yourself walking back and climbing back on the horse. You (or the sneaky ally) are then much less likely to be noticed circling around, especially with decent hide checks.

Ghost sound. When sneaking up on a foe that you expect to hear you, cast ghost sound on the *other* side of him. Alternately if there's any reasonable chance of wind add a nice white noise background sound. It won't eliminate your party's noise but it will mask it making it harder to pick out. Should create a circumstance penalty of at least a few points.

How many people really test the Wall of Force or a Wall of Stone? They are silent and appear as part of spellcasting, perfect for low level illusions.

Incorporeal undead are wonderful illusions. Utterly silent, they phase through solid matter, and 50% of the time even magical weapons don't make solid contact. Fire off a Scare spell the round before and you've even provided the ambience. Regardless, your DM will go cross-eyed at least once figuring out how to work it. Me, I'd flip a coin each time they hit it. Heads they get a disbelief Will save, tails they don't to reflect their incorporeal nature.

Mix Dancing Lights with Summoned Lantern Archons. Who can really tell the difference? It might help scare off some critters but will basically act as a mirror image spell for Lantern Archons that doesn't go away when hit. And Will o' the Wisps. And Ghaeles in light-ball form. Since this is a fixed-function illusion it doesn't suffer the "no emulating other illusion spell" restriction.

Pay town mages to summon critters for your study. Illusions can emulate very high level summon spells and might provide enough imposing beasts to help out. Fire off a real Summon spell first, even of low level, and the foes will have no reason to disbelieve. (This only works when your DM's opponents are willing to flee. The "always fights to the death to protect it's 8cp treasure" kind of DMs won't respond to this.)

Dancing weapons. Minor images are great for appearing to pull out a sword and send it hovering through the air. See the above DM caveat.

 

[Ylis]

I've never found Illusions very effective, combat-wise. They have wonderful uses otherwise, but I've never felt too compelled to play illusionists...it's too easy to die

 

[I'm A Banana]

thats sorta what the save entitles. basicly its seeing do u realise that this thing doesnt exist. if u cast it in front of an ogre warrior then hes probly not gona realize that that was an illusionary spell

Well, yeah....these are just the conditions for allowing a save, basically. The save still has to go down, and moronic enemies still aren't going to do it, but once there's some doubt to reality, they get a save.

I dunno, illusion spells I don't want to be any better than other spells, pretty much...and it follows that if a lot of enemies know mages can cast magic missile, they also know those same mages can cast silent image, and so will be astute for things that don't 'look real.' The illusion's main benefit is had when you blend it into the surroundings, as flawlessly as possible. Illusions are subtle, IMHO. They're not spells that are used to 'illusion damage' a stupid monster, though they are spells that are used to trick said monster.

 

[Driddle]

... if a lot of enemies know mages can cast magic missile, they also know those same mages can cast silent image, and so will be astute for things that don't 'look real.' ...

I'm on the other side of the fence on this interpretation of the game world. I figure that magic is something a non-mage can never ever be sure about because it's, well, MAGIC. Spells are weird, otherworldly, dangerous and can't be explained by the common folk. So I give illusions that benefit of the doubt -- rather than have a Doubting Thomas NPC try to put his hand through the monster's chest to test its validity, I'd have him give the monster some serious safety space first. Same thing for magic missiles and the like -- who's to say what the "standard" magic missile looks and sounds like, especially when you haven't studied magic yourself?