Tactics question (my players - out!)
- Thread starter Berandor
- Start date
MerakSpielman
First Post
Standard tactics for defeating an adventuring party:
1. Kill the cleric. Hopefully his holy symbol makes him easily identifiable.
2. Kill anybody who looks like a spellcaster. If killing them outright isn't an option, ready actions to shoot missiles at them if they start casting a spell.
3. Hit anything that wears heavy armor (and isn't the cleric) with things that require either will saves (if available) or ranged touch attacks (tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, etc).
4. Focus fire. This is mean. But if you have 30 crossbow-hobgoblins on the ramparts, have them all shoot at the same character until he drops, then move on to the next one.
5. Aid action. If it comes down to melee and the tank-PCs are hard to hit, have most of the hobgoblins use Aid actions to give one or two of their number much better chances of hitting. If this makes hitting a sure-thing, the fellow doing the hitting can Power Attack for extra damage.
6. Impede movement. Caltrops are good, but Difficult Terrain is better. Surround the fortress with 60' of rubble, making anybody on foot move at half speed. Combine this with caltrops or movement-impeding magic to give the archers as much time as possible to soften them up.
7. Invisible foes (presuming magical solutions aren't available): Keep a kennel of trained attack animals with the Scent ability. Have 5' wide hallways so invisible foes can't get past defenders.
8. Flying foes: If there are wings, use tanglefoot bags. Otherwise, focus-fire missile weapons.
1. Kill the cleric. Hopefully his holy symbol makes him easily identifiable.
2. Kill anybody who looks like a spellcaster. If killing them outright isn't an option, ready actions to shoot missiles at them if they start casting a spell.
3. Hit anything that wears heavy armor (and isn't the cleric) with things that require either will saves (if available) or ranged touch attacks (tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, etc).
4. Focus fire. This is mean. But if you have 30 crossbow-hobgoblins on the ramparts, have them all shoot at the same character until he drops, then move on to the next one.
5. Aid action. If it comes down to melee and the tank-PCs are hard to hit, have most of the hobgoblins use Aid actions to give one or two of their number much better chances of hitting. If this makes hitting a sure-thing, the fellow doing the hitting can Power Attack for extra damage.
6. Impede movement. Caltrops are good, but Difficult Terrain is better. Surround the fortress with 60' of rubble, making anybody on foot move at half speed. Combine this with caltrops or movement-impeding magic to give the archers as much time as possible to soften them up.
7. Invisible foes (presuming magical solutions aren't available): Keep a kennel of trained attack animals with the Scent ability. Have 5' wide hallways so invisible foes can't get past defenders.
8. Flying foes: If there are wings, use tanglefoot bags. Otherwise, focus-fire missile weapons.
1) If only 2 or 3 hobgoblins are encountered, they should flee, 1 going for help, the other(s) staying just far enough ahead of the party that it can keep track of the party without becoming engaged in combat.
2) If 4 or 5 are encountered, again one should go for help, while the others decide whether they are strong enough to stand and fight or fall back.
3) If 6 or more are encountered, 1 or 2 should hang back in reserve, ready to jump into the combat or go for help. The rest should aggressively attack (especially if they outnumber the group)
- If there is some separation between the groups when the fight ensues, target those with ranged weapons(effects) for as long as possible.
- once melee ensues, focus attacks on one or two at a time, depending on the terrain and positioning.
- as soon as the party is equal in number to those attacking, start planning( not necessarily executing) a withdrawal. If the party appears on the verge of breaking, commit any reserves (see point 3)
- as soon as the party outnumbers the hobgoblins, either commit reserves to help with withdrawal or just break and run, trusting to your knowledge of the home ground to provide escape and opportunity to regroup.
- if the hobgoblins are outnumbered by more than 2, and cannot withdraw, surrender (unless the party has a habit of 'no mercy' and the hobgoblins know it). This will give the last hobgoblin ( the one who went for help, or was held in reserve to go for help) some extra time to get help.
I would say that unless the hobgoblins outnumber the party by 2 or more, they should not initiate combat (unless they are able to spring a quick in and out ambush). If the hobgoblins are outnumbered in anyway, they should attempt to avoid contact completely. With equal numbers, the hobgoblins should take a more defensive stance and force the party to attack, or withdraw carefully. By using messengers you can have small outnumbered groups of hobgoblins draw an overconfident party in to a devestating ambush, in an area where several small groups of hobgoblins have assembled.
2) If 4 or 5 are encountered, again one should go for help, while the others decide whether they are strong enough to stand and fight or fall back.
3) If 6 or more are encountered, 1 or 2 should hang back in reserve, ready to jump into the combat or go for help. The rest should aggressively attack (especially if they outnumber the group)
- If there is some separation between the groups when the fight ensues, target those with ranged weapons(effects) for as long as possible.
- once melee ensues, focus attacks on one or two at a time, depending on the terrain and positioning.
- as soon as the party is equal in number to those attacking, start planning( not necessarily executing) a withdrawal. If the party appears on the verge of breaking, commit any reserves (see point 3)
- as soon as the party outnumbers the hobgoblins, either commit reserves to help with withdrawal or just break and run, trusting to your knowledge of the home ground to provide escape and opportunity to regroup.
- if the hobgoblins are outnumbered by more than 2, and cannot withdraw, surrender (unless the party has a habit of 'no mercy' and the hobgoblins know it). This will give the last hobgoblin ( the one who went for help, or was held in reserve to go for help) some extra time to get help.
I would say that unless the hobgoblins outnumber the party by 2 or more, they should not initiate combat (unless they are able to spring a quick in and out ambush). If the hobgoblins are outnumbered in anyway, they should attempt to avoid contact completely. With equal numbers, the hobgoblins should take a more defensive stance and force the party to attack, or withdraw carefully. By using messengers you can have small outnumbered groups of hobgoblins draw an overconfident party in to a devestating ambush, in an area where several small groups of hobgoblins have assembled.
A few more ideas
Hobgoblins wounded but not killed outright should seek to disengage: you don't 'fight to the death' at first encounter; that's what a final stand is for, and they're much more likely to make that final stand in the presence of their leader types. If there's a magical healer in their group, that gives them a shot of survival; likewise, it will help consume buffs, rages, etc., by extending the overall length of the encounter.
Let them learn: any survivor who has seen that wizard cast a spell can warn others that they need to focus on him.
My GM made great use of intelligent opponents in a recent lair-invasion: any time we stopped to try and rest, they re-fortified, setting up traps and defenses aimed at whichever location we were defending, and using hit-and-run tactics to insure that we never got a full night's sleep.
Also, there are some little things you can do: as the party gets deeper in, let 'warned' hobgoblins start bringing pieces of the environment into play. A table turned on its side for people to hide under; (+2 or +4 cover bonus) a door left slightly ajar with something balanced atop it (to make noise when it falls and let the guys in the next room buff up); etc. This will provide versimillitude as well as challenge, especially if you paint a picture of the hobgoblins getting more desperate the deeper the party gets. (Flipside: if they overrun the first encounter and prevent an escapee, let the second encounter be unarmed, or unarmored, or otherwise scrambling to get ready to fight.)
The spell darkness can be put to great use; get the barbarian fighting blind. Its also a great non-lethal trap: a mere annoyance to a hobgoblin living there who forgets about it and sets it off, but a real boon to hobgoblins trying to fight off a determined enemy.
Finally, once the party has reached and passed a 'fork' in the tunnels, let some other group sneak up behind them. If (as is likely) the hobgoblins have reached a point where they know there's a wizard, but the barbarian and cleric have proven an impossibly strong barrier preventing them from reaching him, this second group can wait for them to engage a fixed defensive barrier, and then fall upon them from the rear. They get the equivalent of a surprise round: appearing in view at the start of their initiative, and then getting a full round action (move and attack, likely) before the party gets to react to their appearance on the field, and they've now cut off the party's ability to retreat from this engagement. That will be brutal - unless the party has remembered to have somebody watching their rear with an action 'readied' against the appearance of new opponents.
One other suggestion: you can run this encounter *by yourself* first, running a facsimile of the party against your hobgoblins. Literally, set up a battle-mat, play both sides, roll dice (or stipulate 'average' rolls), etc. You'll see how it turns out, and may be able to judge things such as, for example, how strong or weak to make that enveloping group, or what level of difficulty a tactic or an environemtal-effects trap adds to an existing encounter. You don't want your superior tactics to result in a TPK, but you do want to make this encounter a memorable challenge.
Hobgoblins wounded but not killed outright should seek to disengage: you don't 'fight to the death' at first encounter; that's what a final stand is for, and they're much more likely to make that final stand in the presence of their leader types. If there's a magical healer in their group, that gives them a shot of survival; likewise, it will help consume buffs, rages, etc., by extending the overall length of the encounter.
Let them learn: any survivor who has seen that wizard cast a spell can warn others that they need to focus on him.
My GM made great use of intelligent opponents in a recent lair-invasion: any time we stopped to try and rest, they re-fortified, setting up traps and defenses aimed at whichever location we were defending, and using hit-and-run tactics to insure that we never got a full night's sleep.
Also, there are some little things you can do: as the party gets deeper in, let 'warned' hobgoblins start bringing pieces of the environment into play. A table turned on its side for people to hide under; (+2 or +4 cover bonus) a door left slightly ajar with something balanced atop it (to make noise when it falls and let the guys in the next room buff up); etc. This will provide versimillitude as well as challenge, especially if you paint a picture of the hobgoblins getting more desperate the deeper the party gets. (Flipside: if they overrun the first encounter and prevent an escapee, let the second encounter be unarmed, or unarmored, or otherwise scrambling to get ready to fight.)
The spell darkness can be put to great use; get the barbarian fighting blind. Its also a great non-lethal trap: a mere annoyance to a hobgoblin living there who forgets about it and sets it off, but a real boon to hobgoblins trying to fight off a determined enemy.
Finally, once the party has reached and passed a 'fork' in the tunnels, let some other group sneak up behind them. If (as is likely) the hobgoblins have reached a point where they know there's a wizard, but the barbarian and cleric have proven an impossibly strong barrier preventing them from reaching him, this second group can wait for them to engage a fixed defensive barrier, and then fall upon them from the rear. They get the equivalent of a surprise round: appearing in view at the start of their initiative, and then getting a full round action (move and attack, likely) before the party gets to react to their appearance on the field, and they've now cut off the party's ability to retreat from this engagement. That will be brutal - unless the party has remembered to have somebody watching their rear with an action 'readied' against the appearance of new opponents.
One other suggestion: you can run this encounter *by yourself* first, running a facsimile of the party against your hobgoblins. Literally, set up a battle-mat, play both sides, roll dice (or stipulate 'average' rolls), etc. You'll see how it turns out, and may be able to judge things such as, for example, how strong or weak to make that enveloping group, or what level of difficulty a tactic or an environemtal-effects trap adds to an existing encounter. You don't want your superior tactics to result in a TPK, but you do want to make this encounter a memorable challenge.
Varianor Abroad
Explorer
I would say "impede movement" is a little higher. Tanglefoot bags to stick, and then pincushion the lot. Have at least one hobgoblin with missile weapon taking a ready action to attack anyone who casts a spell. They fire and if they hit, the caster takes damage and needs to make the Conentration check.
He who controls the terrain will control the battle.
There should be no straight or direct paths to the Hobgoblins lair. Any tunnels should be half fill with sandbags to force people to crawl through (and thus make easy targets)
At every intersection should be fortified positions with overlapping fiels of fire.
There should be secret doors to give the skirmishes high mobility to get around behind the party, shoot, then flee.
In any stand up fight there should be tower shields, formation fighting specialists with shortswords, and ranks of longspearmen at the back.
The party should always be hit from 2 directions at once.
Above all the party should NEVER be allowed to rest.
There should be no straight or direct paths to the Hobgoblins lair. Any tunnels should be half fill with sandbags to force people to crawl through (and thus make easy targets)
At every intersection should be fortified positions with overlapping fiels of fire.
There should be secret doors to give the skirmishes high mobility to get around behind the party, shoot, then flee.
In any stand up fight there should be tower shields, formation fighting specialists with shortswords, and ranks of longspearmen at the back.
The party should always be hit from 2 directions at once.
Above all the party should NEVER be allowed to rest.
2 hobgoblins with crossbows
2 hobgoblins with reach weapons (long spear).
Hobgobs with crossbow fire at the group, barbarian rages and charges, have the remaining hobgobs with longspears set for the charge.
Barbarian shiskabob.
then proceed to fire on the group while the two hobgobs protect the crossbow people.
a well placed sleep spell should take out the tactic but then, how many sleep spells do they have? healing? raging? hehe
2 hobgoblins with reach weapons (long spear).
Hobgobs with crossbow fire at the group, barbarian rages and charges, have the remaining hobgobs with longspears set for the charge.
Barbarian shiskabob.
then proceed to fire on the group while the two hobgobs protect the crossbow people.
a well placed sleep spell should take out the tactic but then, how many sleep spells do they have? healing? raging? hehe
Bad, bad hobgoblins...
A set-the-scene thought...
As the players enter the area, describe how they feel a very gentle breeze blowing towards them...ever so slightly...like a natural draft (more on this later).
(1) Primary mission of the first guard post is to raise the alarm for the rest of the outpost. They will have 1-2 lightly armored "scouts" that run at the first sign of danger to raise the alarm. Being reasonably smart and well-trained, they are likely to have a primary and back-up alarm system, such as a gong or bell in the first guard chamber and another one 30 feet further back in case the first one is taken out by a silence spell. If they are sure the alarm has been raised, the rest of the lead guard post is to retreat (if possible), surrender (if the remaining guards are clearly outmatched, they have been instructed to surrender and parley...offering a false map of the complex - which takes the PCs to a dead-end room or other good ambush place - in a ploy to buy time for the rest of the defense to get organzied) or play dead (this works very well if you have never tried it before and don't have a "I cut all their heads off" PC - have one or two of the enemy 'take a dive' - only to get back up and stick a spear through the wizard during the middle of the next combat).
(2) I agree with the above poster...no straight passages, especially near guard posts and choke points. The design of most medieval tower stairs was a narrow, right-turning twist while going up. This was to allow a right-handed defender to back up the steps while fighting effectively while a right-handed attacker would be at a significant disadvantage (-2 to -4 on attack, no 2-handed weapons). Make the first turn out of the initial guard post a narrow, 90 degree right-hand turn for a similar effect...shields guards from line-of-sight spell effects, allows only one assailant to attack at a time and allows for reach weapons like long spears to be used to "aid other" and gang up on the barbarian. A series of such turns could allow a small force of hobgoblins to 'fight by pairs'...allowing one or two to break contact, quaff a CLW and continue the battle.
(3) If they can break contact, they retreat through a rather flimsy door (fairly easy break DC), if not...they die in place. The next corridor is straight, with a slight up slope. The door is designed to slow the PCs down while the guards further back prepare the next line of defense...a large vat of boiled animal lard mixed with oil. They spill this down the sloped corridor, followed by burning bundles of oil-soaked hemp or other smokey, slow-burning material.
Remember that slight breeze? The outpost is constructed so that air is 'drawn' back towards the entrance. Choking smoke is pulled past the PCs - obscuring vision and making it difficult to breathe while the hobgoblins fire crossbows into their midst. The mixed flaming oil and animal lard makes for slippery footing (ala grease spell).
(4) All of this is designed to slow the PCs down while the main defenses can be prepared. Depending on the size of the outpost, the main defense could be a central chamber with murder holes, portcullises, balconies or other devices designed to give crossbow, long spear or pole-arm wielding hobgoblins "stand off" from the PCs and allow them to whittle the PCs down. Another fun thing to do would be to drop a concealed portcullis down after the barbarian and/or cleric have passed - to physically separate him from the other PCs, then use a secret passage to send a hit team against the 'softer' targets while the majority of the hobgoblin warriors dog-pile the barbarian. 'Aid Other' is definitely your friend here.
Playing dead, false surrender, hit and run, fight by pairs, giving up space for time to prepare a trap/all out defense, sending runner to get reinforcements, using non-lethal traps or props (such as a portcullis) to divide the battlefield and allow the hobgoblins to gang up on individual party members, concealed doors and passages to allow for flanking/rear attacks, physical separation with balconies, murder holes or other barriers that allow for missile fire or reach weapons use while staying out of 5' melee range...all kinds of fun stuff
!
My 2 coppers...
~ Old One
A set-the-scene thought...
As the players enter the area, describe how they feel a very gentle breeze blowing towards them...ever so slightly...like a natural draft (more on this later).
(1) Primary mission of the first guard post is to raise the alarm for the rest of the outpost. They will have 1-2 lightly armored "scouts" that run at the first sign of danger to raise the alarm. Being reasonably smart and well-trained, they are likely to have a primary and back-up alarm system, such as a gong or bell in the first guard chamber and another one 30 feet further back in case the first one is taken out by a silence spell. If they are sure the alarm has been raised, the rest of the lead guard post is to retreat (if possible), surrender (if the remaining guards are clearly outmatched, they have been instructed to surrender and parley...offering a false map of the complex - which takes the PCs to a dead-end room or other good ambush place - in a ploy to buy time for the rest of the defense to get organzied) or play dead (this works very well if you have never tried it before and don't have a "I cut all their heads off" PC - have one or two of the enemy 'take a dive' - only to get back up and stick a spear through the wizard during the middle of the next combat).
(2) I agree with the above poster...no straight passages, especially near guard posts and choke points. The design of most medieval tower stairs was a narrow, right-turning twist while going up. This was to allow a right-handed defender to back up the steps while fighting effectively while a right-handed attacker would be at a significant disadvantage (-2 to -4 on attack, no 2-handed weapons). Make the first turn out of the initial guard post a narrow, 90 degree right-hand turn for a similar effect...shields guards from line-of-sight spell effects, allows only one assailant to attack at a time and allows for reach weapons like long spears to be used to "aid other" and gang up on the barbarian. A series of such turns could allow a small force of hobgoblins to 'fight by pairs'...allowing one or two to break contact, quaff a CLW and continue the battle.
(3) If they can break contact, they retreat through a rather flimsy door (fairly easy break DC), if not...they die in place. The next corridor is straight, with a slight up slope. The door is designed to slow the PCs down while the guards further back prepare the next line of defense...a large vat of boiled animal lard mixed with oil. They spill this down the sloped corridor, followed by burning bundles of oil-soaked hemp or other smokey, slow-burning material.
Remember that slight breeze? The outpost is constructed so that air is 'drawn' back towards the entrance. Choking smoke is pulled past the PCs - obscuring vision and making it difficult to breathe while the hobgoblins fire crossbows into their midst. The mixed flaming oil and animal lard makes for slippery footing (ala grease spell).
(4) All of this is designed to slow the PCs down while the main defenses can be prepared. Depending on the size of the outpost, the main defense could be a central chamber with murder holes, portcullises, balconies or other devices designed to give crossbow, long spear or pole-arm wielding hobgoblins "stand off" from the PCs and allow them to whittle the PCs down. Another fun thing to do would be to drop a concealed portcullis down after the barbarian and/or cleric have passed - to physically separate him from the other PCs, then use a secret passage to send a hit team against the 'softer' targets while the majority of the hobgoblin warriors dog-pile the barbarian. 'Aid Other' is definitely your friend here.
Playing dead, false surrender, hit and run, fight by pairs, giving up space for time to prepare a trap/all out defense, sending runner to get reinforcements, using non-lethal traps or props (such as a portcullis) to divide the battlefield and allow the hobgoblins to gang up on individual party members, concealed doors and passages to allow for flanking/rear attacks, physical separation with balconies, murder holes or other barriers that allow for missile fire or reach weapons use while staying out of 5' melee range...all kinds of fun stuff
!My 2 coppers...
~ Old One
Similar Threads
Split the Hoard
Split the Hoard
Negotiate, demand, or steal the loot you desire!
A competitive card game for 2-5 players