Taking the Enhancement out of Magic Weapons/Armor/Neck Slot

[Estlor]

I'm toying with the idea of removing the enhancement bonus to attack, AC, and NADs from magic items for my next campaign in an effort to let me put in a broader variety of wondrous items and consumables without feeling like I'm putting my party at a disadvantage by not providing them a steady stream of new weapons, implements, armor, and neck items to keep their attack and defenses in line with 4e's underlying mathematical assumptions. The base effect is all PCs will automatically receive an enhancement bonus to the three categories such that, roughly every five levels, it continues to scale like it would if they found standard 4e magic items. I don't have the exact specifics worked out, but I'm leaning 2/3/4, 7/8/9, 12/13/14, etc (so each PC has an "off" level at the beginning and end of the 5-level span) and may or may not determine what gets enhanced either by PC choice or by class role. (PC choice is probably easiest since role gets messy with hybrid classes.)

I see two immediate side-effects from this:

1. Weapons, Implements, Armor, and Neck Slot items change in value as they only provide properties and powers now.
2. Treasure parcels need to be adjusted to account for the free "magic items" each PC gets automatically so that, over the course of 5 levels, each PC still has the approximate magic wealth of four 4e-baseline magic items.

Calculating the new "level" value of the affected magic items seems simple enough. Take the existing item, subtract a vanilla item of the same type and enhancement bonus from it, and that's the value of the item's properties/powers. (E.g., a +1 Symbol of Battle is a level 5 item, a Magic Holy Symbol +1 is a level 1 item, therefore the Symbol of Battle without an enhancement bonus is a 4th level item.) Once you've got the baseline, you project that out across all of the 5-level groupings. (E.g., our Symbol of Battle scales as 4th, 9th, 14th, 19th, 24th, and 29th level.)

Of course, here is my first dilemma. Do I scale the items? I could very easily dictate that a 9th-level Symbol of Battle is necessary to deal +2d8 points of damage on a critical hit, or I could simply say a Symbol of Battle deals +1d8 per plus of your attack enhancement. Likewise, I could make my PCs get a "14th-level" Symbol of Battle to get the 2d10 damage from it's power, or I could just say when your attack enhancement bonus hits +3 that Symbol of Battle you carried around since heroic tier improves automatically.

I'm afraid if I keep bonus critical damage and power effects tied to an overall "level" of an item, I'll be right back where I started - obligated to give out more and more weapons, armor, neck slots, etc. On the other hand, will things get out of hand if you can buy a thundering weapon for the price of a level 2 magic item and instantly have the benefits of a 19th level magic item. Does it even matter if I continue to dock their treasure parcels for the value of the automatic enhancement bonuses they get? With armor I can justify charging a higher price because of masterwork armor - if you want that scale to be drakescale you've got to pay for it, buddy! But without masterwork weapons/implements/neck items, the same assumptions can't be made about the other items can't be made, and I'd like to avoid simply saying, "You can't buy magic weapon properties." I'd also prefer not to solve it buy building Weapon/Implement Expertise into the items as a gold cost and use that as masterwork items...

Thoughts? Suggestions? Belittling comments about me breaking the system?

 

[Ktulu]

We do a similar thing in all of our games now. It makes the DM's job much easier.

Here is our rules (along with explanations)

Heroic Bonus

At levels 3, 7, 13, 17, 23, & 27 the character receives a cumulative +1 to AC, Defenses, Attack, Damage, and a +1d6 to critical hits.

Spoiler

The reason I do all at a given level is to reduce the "tracking". If every player has to ask what the next bonus is when they level, then it's just as much actual work as giving out magic items. I chose the 3/7 levels because that's in the middle of the 1/2 level bonus and it's on encounter powers, rather than a boost on the same level as daily powers.

Magic items still grant their +bonus, but it does not stack with heroic bonus rules.

Spoiler

This way, a DM can still reward a player with a more powerful item and it still mean something. I found this necessary when dealing with artifacts, mostly, so I made the addendum. However, the treasure rules do assume items of +4 levels are given occasionally, which should result in a +2 item around level 3-4, and a +3 could show up around levels 7-9

These rules have been wildly accepted in the group and have helped balance the overall power. My players have enjoyed magic items more now, because they can focus on the property rather than just getting necessary pluses to boost their data.

Hope that helps.

 

[Angellis_ater]

I am considering something like the above, giving out a +1 enhancement bonus to attack, damage, defenses @ levels 2,6,12,16,22 and 26 and instead using Level Guidelines to what kind of "items" the players can get ahold of/make, whatever.

The only thing I'm bouncing around, conceptually, is the LEVELS when these bonuses are given. I went with 2 because by that level, characters are usually getting atleast 1-2 magic items, atleast. Then, looking at the levels that came after I found tying the enhancement bonus to Utility-gain levels worked out pretty nicely.

 

[Estlor]

The more I think about it, I really do find myself leaning toward pulling the various XYZ Expertise feats from the game and using masterwork weapons similarly to masterwork armor in terms of keeping a cost escalation for creating magic weapons and armor. I'll just have the items key off of tiers like some of the other types (e.g., waist slot, feet slot) do. So then you end up with Flaming Weapon, Masterwork Flaming Weapon (Heroic), Masterwork Flaming Weapon (Paragon), and Masterwork Flaming Weapon (Epic). The untyped one is baseline cost and is like a normal, old-fashioned weapon you buy off the rack. (Heroic) provides a +1 masterwork bonus to attack, (Paragon) provides a +2 masterwork bonus to attack, and (Epic) provides a +3 masterwork bonus to attack. It shifts the cost of Expertise from a feat to gold/magic items, but it at least forces the PCs to choose whether its worth it to buy a property on the cheap and hit less often or put out the "right" amount of money to hit more often.

I can appreciate the reason for picking a set level and handing out the bonus to attack, AC, and NAD at the same time, but I think I'd rather deal with the hassle of my PCs asking when they get stuff to make it more natural like finding an item and giving them the opportunity to prioritize what they want the most.

Of course, this raises the consideration of, "Can I buy masterwork weapons and armor without special properties?" The answer, naturally, will be yes, but you could do this with masterwork armor already (just buy the vanilla Magic Armor +X of the appropriate minimum enhancement for that armor). I'd just need to figure out what appropriate plus translates into the masterwork weapon/implement. I'm leaning 2/4/6 as the breaks because, while they don't map EXACTLY to the scaling of the Expertise feats, it does allow for the +1 at mid-heroic where most people take XYZ Expertise as well as the +3 at late epic where it would scale anyway.

Edit: I looked at the weapon chart and mapping it to +2/+4/+6 almost precisely mirrors the scaling of the Expertise feats. Bonus!

 

[Nifft]

The more I think about it, I really do find myself leaning toward pulling the various XYZ Expertise feats from the game and using masterwork weapons similarly to masterwork armor in terms of keeping a cost escalation for creating magic weapons and armor.

I honestly don't see why you'd want to keep cost escalation.

IMHO, ban the Expertise feats, and lower the defenses of opponents by -1 at Heroic, -2 at Paragon, and -3 at Epic.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Ed_Laprade]

Here's something I don't think I've seen before: Instead of replacing the item pluses with character pluses that scale, why not just let the item pluses scale? That way the character can keep an item from level one on up, or trade off for something else that has a 'better' function, in his/her opinion. You'd still have the price problem though.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I honestly don't see why you'd want to keep cost escalation.

IMHO, ban the Expertise feats, and lower the defenses of opponents by -1 at Heroic, -2 at Paragon, and -3 at Epic.

Cheers, -- N

You know, that's such a blindingly obvious idea I can complete understand why I missed it first time around. Plus, it's a lot easier for the players.

Thanks, Nifft!

 

[Sir Brennen]

Just thought I'd throw out, some methods to do this are being covered in the DMG 2, coming out next month:

Chapter 5 also sets out a new system of rewards you can use instead of (or as a supplement to) magic items. Divine boons represent gifts from the gods or their agents, legendary boons express the accomplishment of great deeds of power, and grandmaster training reflects what happens when a player character learns from a legendary master.