Talent Trees - Why do we believe they are in?

[Anthtriel]

That's something that has bothered me for a while. People throw the term "talent tree" around as if we knew they are in. At first, I strongly supported the idea. Every class would have three or four, and every race one or two sets of abilities, that would all require other abilities of that same tree as prerequisites.

However, we haven't seen any prerequisites in descriptions so far. If the abilities are not strongly dependant on one other, then you really cannot call them a talent "tree".
My impression has been that you simply get a new power about every two or three levels, and give up one of your old powers for a new one every level or so. The powers themselves would then rarely, if ever, require another power.

Sure, that would encourage cherry-picking, but it would also allow a lot of character building freedom, and make sure that you don't need to plan your entire character over 20 levels right at the beginning just to make sure you end up with something playable.


So is there everything I missed, some interview, something in Races and Classes? Or do people just say "talent trees" for lack of a better word?

 

[Lackhand]

I agree with your analysis.

"Talent Shrub" or "Talent Grass" just don't sound as good.

That is all.

 

[Sitara]

First, Talent tree's are just used for organizing talents with a certain theme (martial, stealth, investigative, etc) together. Many of them can be picked separately, without one leading to another.

An excellent example of this is the Jedi Guardian talent Tree in SAGA. All 5 talents in that tree are singular talents, that have no requirements NOR do they lead to other talents.

Furthermore, even with talents that are pre-req talents to more powerful talents, the pre-req talents usually are not useless in of themselves. They too are useful, and many players would prefer picking up one or two of them to fulfill a character concept or just for coolness.

(ex: Dark Side Sense talent in the Jedi Sentinel Tree is a prerequisite to the powerful Dark Side Scourge talent and also the fantastic Resist the Dark Side talent. However, Dark Side Sense is a useful talent iun of itself, and remains so at all levels.)


Anyhow, I hope my reply was helpful. And I am quite confident Talent Tree's are in; I just hope they are well designed.

 

[Plane Sailing]

So is there everything I missed, some interview, something in Races and Classes? Or do people just say "talent trees" for lack of a better word?

"Talent Trees" appeared to their fullest extent in Star Wars Saga Edition, and a jolly good thing they are too.

Because we've been told that SWSE can be considered a preview of many 4e mechanics, there has been the assumption that such an excellent thing as the talent trees must surely have made its way in.

However, there has been nothing to date which confirms this.

Indeed, Chris Perkins has said

...to build a system for character creation and advancement in 4th Edition that draws inspiration from numerous sources, but isn’t exactly like anything that’s been done before."

So we don't really know -anything- about 'configurable class abilities' aka talent trees at the moment!

 

[Ranger REG]

Wait till you hear about "paragon paths" and "epic destinies."

 

[Falling Icicle]

It's because WoW has talent trees, and as we all know, 4e is heavily inspired by WoW.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's because WoW has talent trees, and as we all know, 4e is heavily inspired by WoW.

Talent trees first appeared in d20 modern, which handily predates WoW, so enough of the WoW thing already.

Thanks

 

[Patlin]

Talent trees first appeared in d20 modern, which handily predates WoW, so enough of the WoW thing already.

Thanks

I actually re-read some of my D20 modern book based on talent tree comments (which I haven't actually used, we never got around to having a non-fantasy game) and I wouldn't exactly call those "trees." I'd have to agree with the shrub comments. Does SWSE substantially expand on the concept?

 

[Masquerade]

Talent trees first appeared in d20 modern, which handily predates WoW

Actually, talent trees were in Diablo II before they were in WoW, and Diablo II predates d20 Modern by over a year, IIRC.

 

[Ranger REG]

Ah. Diablo. Those were good online gaming times.