Black Flag Tales of the Valiant is out! What do people think?

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I haven't picked up either PDF yet, but I know backers have them and the Monster Vault is a silver best seller on DTRPG, so people have got the books now.

What does everyone think? How do they look, as a total package? What's good? What's bad? Will you use this to replace the WotC books or to supplement them? Would you recommend them to others?
 

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So, I backed it; ran one of the backer reward adventures last night, and set aside 45min for AAR (After Action Review) with players. Won't focus on module, but system.

Favorite thing? The new Luck mechanic, which replaces DM Inspiration Points. FANTASTIC system that encourages use, building and spending points more frequently, and doesn't end up as afterthought like Inspiration often does.

Least favorite thing? Legendary Resistances remain (I take issue with just denying by fiat a roll result beneficial to the party). Also found a creature with the Hardy trait in the creature book; trait cancels critical hits, which is a huge letdown for player fun, for no real narratively relevant reason.

Player running the new Mechanist class really went to town; despite a little "this is new" confusion, they really had a lot of fun with options.

The Player's Guide had mixed reviews. My table's consensus was that it felt less like its own system, and more like a supplement to vanilla WOTC. Players felt it was a little more crunch than they liked with 5e. I personally felt the crunch was good mechanical support for having variety to options (looking at Fighter, specifically), but no system is perfect for everyone. There were some structural/editing complaints; why were some carryover rules explained, but not others? Stuff like that.

My take? Especially with the Fighter, it felt like a good blend of 3.5 elements and 5e. Still 5e engine, but Traits (Feat replacement) are more INTERESTING, actually adding options/actions instead of just additional proficiencies or moar damage. Replacing Race with Lineage/Heritage allows a little more flexibility. Backgrounds feel more relevant to character design; come with a Trait (selected from a list) instead of the WOTC Background Features that are too situational to use often.

They also just published a conversion guide, so it shouldn't be hard to port in existing 5e options from other sources. Really looking forward to using that for the Cleric, as it only has two subclasses and I have a soft spot for Knowledge Domain.

Overall, I would buy again, but I would change how I presented it to players. I am a longtime fan of Kobold Press, though mechanics of their creatures and player options are comparable to WOTC when it comes to balance and fun/ease of use.

Circling back to Fighter specifics, and why I compare this to 3.5/5e blend: Fighter brings back the "Improvements" (ASI) at every other level, allowing them to max stats quickly and get more Talents. BUT this isn't the same as 3.5's issue with Feat selection, as TOV Talents aren't just "+2 to this roll" or similar. Talents each come with a few bullet points, offering a breadth of applications and adding interesting options.
 

More detail on Luck mechanic:

Players start with 0 Luck. They are awarded Luck by DM as with Inspiration. They can also earn it by "failing upward"; one of last night's players compared this to World of Darkness system. Miss an Attack, or fail a Saving throw? Get another Luck point.

Players can bank up to 5 Luck. IF they would get a 6th point, they roll a d4 and that's their new total.

Players can spend points on a 1/1 basis to improve a roll result. Roll a 12? spend a couple points to increase it to 14. Players can also spend 3 Luck to reroll the d20 once, taking the new result.

There is also Luck-themed Trait that increases earning Luck and changes Luck reset to 1d4+1.
 


Out of curiosity, do the books include an ORC license notice.
Not that I can find in the Player's Guide; what I referenced in my posts comes from the SRD document.

Player's Guide disclaimer:
Tales of the Valiant, the Tales of the Valiant logo, Midgard, and Kobold Press are trademarks of Open Design LLC.
All rights reserved.
©2024 Open Design LLC. All rights reserved.
System Reference Document 5.1: This work includes material taken from the System Reference Document 5.1 (“SRD 5.1”)
by Wizards of the Coast LLC and available at Systems Reference Document | Dungeons & Dragons. The SRD
5.1 is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License available at https://creativecommons.
org/licenses/by/4.0/legalcode. Content in this work is compatible with the fifth edition of Dungeons & Dragons

Disclaimer in the SRD document:

ORC NOTICE: This product is licensed under the ORC License, located at the Library of Congress at TX 9-307-067,
and available online at various locations including koboldpress.com/orclicense and others.
All warranties are disclaimed as set forth therein.
Attribution: This work includes material taken from the System Reference Document 5.1 (“SRD 5.1”) by Wizards of the
Coast LLC and available at Systems Reference Document | Dungeons & Dragons.
The SRD 5.1 is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License
available at CC BY 4.0 Legal Code | Attribution 4.0 International | Creative Commons.
If you use our Licensed Material in your own published works, please credit us as follows:
Black Flag Roleplaying Reference Document v0.2, © Open Design LLC d/b/a Kobold Press
Reserved Material: Reserved Material elements in this product include all elements designated
as Reserved Material under the ORC License.
Expressly Designated Licensed Material: This product contains no Expressly Designated Licensed Material.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
So, I backed it; ran one of the backer reward adventures last night, and set aside 45min for AAR (After Action Review) with players. Won't focus on module, but system.

Favorite thing? The new Luck mechanic, which replaces DM Inspiration Points. FANTASTIC system that encourages use, building and spending points more frequently, and doesn't end up as afterthought like Inspiration often does.

Least favorite thing? Legendary Resistances remain (I take issue with just denying by fiat a roll result beneficial to the party). Also found a creature with the Hardy trait in the creature book; trait cancels critical hits, which is a huge letdown for player fun, for no real narratively relevant reason.

Player running the new Mechanist class really went to town; despite a little "this is new" confusion, they really had a lot of fun with options.

The Player's Guide had mixed reviews. My table's consensus was that it felt less like its own system, and more like a supplement to vanilla WOTC. Players felt it was a little more crunch than they liked with 5e. I personally felt the crunch was good mechanical support for having variety to options (looking at Fighter, specifically), but no system is perfect for everyone. There were some structural/editing complaints; why were some carryover rules explained, but not others? Stuff like that.

My take? Especially with the Fighter, it felt like a good blend of 3.5 elements and 5e. Still 5e engine, but Traits (Feat replacement) are more INTERESTING, actually adding options/actions instead of just additional proficiencies or moar damage. Replacing Race with Lineage/Heritage allows a little more flexibility. Backgrounds feel more relevant to character design; come with a Trait (selected from a list) instead of the WOTC Background Features that are too situational to use often.

They also just published a conversion guide, so it shouldn't be hard to port in existing 5e options from other sources. Really looking forward to using that for the Cleric, as it only has two subclasses and I have a soft spot for Knowledge Domain.

Overall, I would buy again, but I would change how I presented it to players. I am a longtime fan of Kobold Press, though mechanics of their creatures and player options are comparable to WOTC when it comes to balance and fun/ease of use.

Circling back to Fighter specifics, and why I compare this to 3.5/5e blend: Fighter brings back the "Improvements" (ASI) at every other level, allowing them to max stats quickly and get more Talents. BUT this isn't the same as 3.5's issue with Feat selection, as TOV Talents aren't just "+2 to this roll" or similar. Talents each come with a few bullet points, offering a breadth of applications and adding interesting options.
Regarding your issues with Legendary Resistance and the Hardy trait, how would you prefer to handle the issue of PCs knocking out big monsters before they have a chance to do their cool stuff (either by condition lock-down or massive damage)?
 

Regarding your issues with Legendary Resistance and the Hardy trait, how would you prefer to handle the issue of PCs knocking out big monsters before they have a chance to do their cool stuff (either by condition lock-down or massive damage)?
That's a toughie; I am smart enough to develop an opinion on something I see as an issue, but not smart enough to do my own design, generally speaking.

I know it's a contentious issue. MCDM dropped them entirely from Flee, Mortals! (probably my favorite creature book), but that book had specific design focus.

A quick web search finds LOADS of discussions, blog posts, YouTube videos, etc. with proposed fixes. It would take me a while to go through and find one(s) I liked, and I'd still have to playtest them with my table to see how the party felt as well.

Some interesting ideas I see from quick skims;

Charging the nasty HP, or Actions to remove Conditions imposed by failed Save.

Angry GM apparently did one where the creature has multiple independent HP pools; lock the creature down for a while, beat on it, but when that pool is exhausted, all conditions end and you move on to the next pool.

Are any of these perfect? IDK. Are they at least interesting enough to try as a compromise between letting players DO THE THING and having a nasty survive long enough to be a threat? Worth exploring at least, methinks.
 


Buzzqw

Explorer
Out of curiosity, do the books include an ORC license notice.
on player's handbook i don't see any reference to ORC license

this is a snippet from page 2

1715524864499.png
 

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