D&D 5E Tasha > Otto ?

[Joe Liker]

Tasha's hideous laughter (level 1) appears to be strictly superior to Otto's irresistible dance (6th level).

The former incapacitates and prones; the latter stops movement, grants advantage to attackers, and inflicts disadvantage on the target's attacks and Dex saves.

Other than that, the two spells have identical casting times, ranges, number of targets (one), saving throws and durations. The target of either spell gets a new saving throw each round. (Yes, ironically, Otto's irresistible dance is extremely resistible.)

The one slight advantage Otto has over Tasha is that the target of Tasha might get additional saving throws (with advantage) if it takes damage.

Does that really make up for the 5-spell-level gap between these two? Did I miss something?

 

[Falling Icicle]

Otto's irresistible dance automatically affects its target until its next turn with no saving throw, while Tasha's Hideous Laughter does not. So at the very least, OID is going to disable the enemy for up to 1 round. Also, THL doesn't affect targets with an Int less than 4, while OID does. And, as you pointed out, THL grants the target a new saving throw (with Advantage) each and every time it takes damage. Further, OID grants attackers advantage against the target, while THL does not. THL only takes a monster out of the fight for a while (while the party ignores it and attacks its allies), while OID is a great way to disable an enemy while the party attacks it.

 

[Joe Liker]

OID is a great way to disable an enemy while the party attacks it.

The target of OID is not disabled. If it's willing to put up with the dance, it can attack anyone who approaches it. Otherwise, why would the spell mention that the target has disadvantage on attack rolls?

It does, however, have to give up its action if it ever wants to make a saving throw, which is not quite as good as being completely incapacitated, in my opinion. And the OID target still gets reactions, too.

So there's no question that the spells are different, but I'm not at all convinced that OID is worthy of being a 6th level spell. Slightly better than THL maybe -- only because of the one round of guaranteed effect. But not 6th-level better.

 

[Falling Icicle]

The target of OID is not disabled.

A poor choice of wording on my part. It's not entirely "disabled," but the spell consumes its movement and action on every turn, so it doesn't really get to do anything but dance.

If it's willing to put up with the dance, it can attack anyone who approaches it. Otherwise, why would the spell mention that the target has disadvantage on attack rolls?

The dancing creature does not get to attack anyone that approaches it. It doesn't get an action. The reason it says it has disadvantage on attack rolls is because it can still make opportunity attacks or perhaps use a bonus action to attack, such as if it's hasted.

It does, however, have to give up its action if it ever wants to make a saving throw, which is not quite as good as being completely incapacitated, in my opinion. And the OID target still gets reactions, too.

So there's no question that the spells are different, but I'm not at all convinced that OID is worthy of being a 6th level spell. Slightly better than THL maybe -- only because of the one round of guaranteed effect. But not 6th-level better.

There's no question in my mind that OID is superior to THL. What about all of the other advantages it has over THL? It doesn't give the target extra saves with advantage upon taking damage, which is huge. Plus, OID gives attackers advantage on their attack rolls, even ranged attackers. THL makes the target prone, which only gives advantage to attackers within 5 ft, but gives disadvantage on attacks from more than 5 ft. away.

Don't underestimate how powerful it is to be able to lock down a monster for even a single round with no saving throw. That can help a lot against legendary monsters that can auto-succeed on saving throws. A high level caster that's willing to spend multiple 6th+ level spells can use OID to keep any creature that isn't immune to charm locked down for several rounds, while the rest of the party kills it. That's powerful!

 

[Mistwell]

Not a Star Trek Deep Space Nine thread?

 

[Mirtek]

Tasha > Otto ?

Definately. Tasha was an alias of Iggwilv, lover of demon princes and mother of demigods. Otto is "merely" an 18th level mage.

 

[Umbran]

Tasha was an alias of Iggwilv, lover of demon princes and mother of demigods.

Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Daughter

 

[Plane Sailing]

FWIW I agree that OID doesn't seem like a spell which is five levels higher. Compare Charm Person vs Dominate Person for instance.