Telepathy and Mindsight worth

[Duke Arioch]

To extrapolate. Telepathy is pretty much well known and needs no further explanation. Mindsight is a feat from Lords of Madness that allows creatures with telepathy to basically pinpoint other creatures' locations within Telepathy range (if those creatures have Int score of at least 1); essentially working like Blindsense, plus giving you insight into what type of creature it is, as well as it's Int score as a free action.

I know of two ways a PC can get this. One is Mindbender PrC from CA which gives Telepathy on it's 1st level. The other is Hellbred race with Spirit aspect (which gives Telepathy @ character level 15).
Mindsight feat can be taken once the PC has Telepathy.

P.S. I guess there are other ways to get Telepathy, but nothing comes to mind atm, and I am AFB. If you know any other way, pls post it here.

Now, please grade this as you see fit from 1 to 5 where:
1-junk, worthless
2-can find some use, but there are other MUCH better abilities
3-situational but can really help
4-a good ability to have if you can get it
5-pure awesomeness

Thank you!

 

[Jack Simth]

To extrapolate. Telepathy is pretty much well known and needs no further explanation. Mindsight is a feat from Lords of Madness that allows creatures with telepathy to basically pinpoint other creatures' locations within Telepathy range (if those creatures have Int score of at least 1); essentially working like Blindsense, plus giving you insight into what type of creature it is, as well as it's Int score as a free action.

I know of two ways a PC can get this. One is Mindbender PrC from CA which gives Telepathy on it's 1st level. The other is Hellbred race with Spirit aspect (which gives Telepathy @ character level 15).
Mindsight feat can be taken once the PC has Telepathy.

P.S. I guess there are other ways to get Telepathy, but nothing comes to mind atm, and I am AFB. If you know any other way, pls post it here.

Now, please grade this as you see fit from 1 to 5 where:
1-junk, worthless
2-can find some use, but there are other MUCH better abilities
3-situational but can really help
4-a good ability to have if you can get it
5-pure awesomeness

Thank you!

There's also an Alternate Class Feature for the Psion(Telepath) in a Mind's Eye article - replaces the 5th level bonus feat, grants telepathy at 5 feet per manifester level.

3: Situational. Mindsight is mostly only useful in certain unusual social settings (detect that someone isn't the race they claim... and even then, only if they're far enough off that they have a different type), and only otherwise useful around sneaks (and potentially through closed doors, depending on whether or not Line of Effect rules apply to Telepathy). If you can see everyone coming anyway, it's much less useful.

 

[anest1s]

Telepathy? Sure, it is great. You can use it out of combat in rp situations, in combat for optimizing your party tactics, you can use it to give commands to charmed/dominated monsters etc.- even bluff through it if your DM allows it.

Mindsight? ...usually there are better feats to take.

 

[Empirate]

I think both abilities are good, on their own or combined. The use you'll get out of Mindsight depends a lot on the setting of your campaign and your ingenuity in coming up with ways of using it. Most of all though, it depends on the level you're playing at. In higher level play, Mindsight is awesomesauce IMO, while at low levels it CAN be a big deal (coz there's few reliable ways to detect invisible creatuers), but usually, it isn't. Telepathy on its own is very good for communication obviously - so what use you'll get out of it depends on how important communicating covertly and reliably is to you.
I rated the set as "good", but not "awesome" for these reasons.

 

[the Jester]

Are we rating this against "wish 3/day" or against "gain a bonus feat"? The value of this ability depends an awful lot on what it is stacked up against.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Mindsight is worth grabbing if you can get decent range Telepathy without losing anything. Mindbender gives it at level 1 out to 100 ft w/o any caster level loss, thus Mindsight is a good feat for that build. If you had to lose a CL or take a racial HD or LA for the telepathy, the combo is very much not worth it, IMO.

So...3 or 4, probably 3.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Manual of the Planes has the Planeshifter PrC that gains Telepaty at level 8. No where near as practical, but another option.

I rated it a 5. Mindsight is fantastic, having a 100' Blindsense is useful, period. In any combat, in any dungeon, tavern, dance hall, dark alley, crowded street, etc. Around corners, through walls, pinpointing through concealment, locating life in a seemingly barren town, counting the number of enemies in the dark. Identifying who's likely to be the enemy wizard, the tribal leader, the crafty spy, the clever diplomat, the true power behind the throne, etc. by comparing intellegence is possibly a plot-breaking ability. Being able to identify shapeshifters and anyone else trying to conceal their type makes Dopplegangers, Mimics, Devils, Demons, Polymorphed Dragons, anyone invisible!, etc. all as if you've got True Seeing for all practical purposes.

And that's just Mindsight. Telepathy is sweet, silent discussions between party members in and out of combat has countless uses. Creeping out NPC's who can't see you, convincing a simpleminded, devout follower of a particular deity that he's hearing from his god, causing an individual with a guilty conscience to hear whispers of what was done wrong... the list goes on.

My friends have agreed to ignore the alignment restriction for Mindbender if dipping for a single level, reskinning it as more of an alternate class feature for a caster than starting the road down a PrC.

So, to recap. Mindsight is:
-At Will Detect Intellgence
-At Will Blindsense
-At Will True Sight
-Usually a 100' range

...That's a 5 in my book.

 

[Duke Arioch]

Okay. Ty all for your thoughts on this. A player in a game I am playing has a bard, and the DM allowed her to use telepathy w/ perform(sing). That is another thing to consider regarding this combo. She is playing a full bard with only one level mindbender thrown in and uses knowledge devotion and bardic knack to really shine. On the other hand, I AM playing a bear barbarian on steroids, and we have a nice strong gish in our party so all is well.
I myself would give something between 4 and 5, but other people don't give it that much credit.