Samuel Leming
First Post
There's a bit more thread here than I expected.
I have mixed feelings on multi-classing the monk.
At first glance unrestricted multi-classing of the monk seems right. I don't like to hear "no" and I don't like to say "no" unless I've got a good reason. I didn't find any balance isues on further examination.
After further thought I do have an issue with the monk freely multi-classing. As written, the class is about the quest for physical perfection. Unarmed combat is what the monk does, not what it is. Restricting multi-classing makes some sense given the single-minded drive inherent in the class.
For me, the jury's still out on multi-classing the monk. If I can get my unarmed combat feats for the fighter to be both effective and balanced there will be almost no need to multi-class the monk. If I can't work it out, I'll go with the unrestricted multi-classing.
I took a look at that earlier today. Took a while to find a copy to borrow.
Saving throws aren't as good. BAB as the fighter. Higher AC bonus. Much more freedom of choice on special abilities. Less mystical claptrap. Kind of has a Bloodgaurd feel to it. I've only given it a cursory glance, but it looks like a solid improvement on the monk.
You're talking about the front-loaded 3.0E ranger? Yeah, I'll have to give you that one even though I had an easier time working with it than the monk.
Cool idea, but how do these rebels hide their unarmed combat training from these telepathic shapeshifters? Seems like it'd be close to impossible, particularly since the rakshasa exist there in number.
Hmmm. Skilled unarmed combatants would fit very well in a setting with a hellenistic flavor, but not as implemented by the core monk.
Interesting. Are you thinking of dropping some of the more mystical monk abilities and just using them as a martial arts mixin/template?
Are these the Oathsworn from AU? There's a setting named Oathbound that I'm completely unfamiliar with. Are they in there?
I've just borrowed a copy of Arcana Unearthed to look these oathsworn up. The oathsworn look to be standard monks with alternate flavor text.
Ninja? I don't see that modelling ninja with monks is a good fit. That would be kind of like using the cleric to play a thief.
Interesting. Have you modified the monk to reflect their more psionic nature?
Since there's an entrance requirement, are monks a prestige class in your world? Not a bad idea.
I see Psychic Warriors as being more like Jedi than monks.
The monk as written is geared more towards physical perfection than spiritual or mental. I've thought about making variant monks that pursue spiritual or mental perfection by devoting themselves to magical or psionic disciplines
Sam
Psychic Warrior said:I remove the multi-class restriction from them (that says they cannot gain gain levels in any other class and still remain a monk). This allows a nice blending of fighter and monk that can make the kind of character that most people think of when they want a bad-ass hand to hand fighter.
I have mixed feelings on multi-classing the monk.
At first glance unrestricted multi-classing of the monk seems right. I don't like to hear "no" and I don't like to say "no" unless I've got a good reason. I didn't find any balance isues on further examination.
After further thought I do have an issue with the monk freely multi-classing. As written, the class is about the quest for physical perfection. Unarmed combat is what the monk does, not what it is. Restricting multi-classing makes some sense given the single-minded drive inherent in the class.
For me, the jury's still out on multi-classing the monk. If I can get my unarmed combat feats for the fighter to be both effective and balanced there will be almost no need to multi-class the monk. If I can't work it out, I'll go with the unrestricted multi-classing.
Joshua Dyal said:For monks in my game, I use the Defender from Midnight.
I took a look at that earlier today. Took a while to find a copy to borrow.
Saving throws aren't as good. BAB as the fighter. Higher AC bonus. Much more freedom of choice on special abilities. Less mystical claptrap. Kind of has a Bloodgaurd feel to it. I've only given it a cursory glance, but it looks like a solid improvement on the monk.
Joshua Dyal said:However, I'd say the Ranger is the most controversial class, by far.
You're talking about the front-loaded 3.0E ranger? Yeah, I'll have to give you that one even though I had an easier time working with it than the monk.
adwyn said:PC and NPC monks have been too rare in my game to justify a major place in the campaign. Instead they are refugees from an overseas kingdom of Rakshasa who prohibit weapons of all sorts, hence the rebel groups devoted themselves to styles of combat that don't use weapons.
Cool idea, but how do these rebels hide their unarmed combat training from these telepathic shapeshifters? Seems like it'd be close to impossible, particularly since the rakshasa exist there in number.
Aust Diamondew said:In my games there are usually no monks for 1 primary reasons:
They do not fit into a semi-hellenistic (spelling?) setting nor into a semi-norse setting. Which are what my two games are most like. I did run a more 'typical' d&d game for a long time however that did allow monks.
Hmmm. Skilled unarmed combatants would fit very well in a setting with a hellenistic flavor, but not as implemented by the core monk.
Aust Diamondew said:Actually I'm thinking of running an oriental/kung fu movie game in which everyone is a high level gesalt (it's an Unearthed Arcana variant) monk/anything else. I think it could be cool.
Interesting. Are you thinking of dropping some of the more mystical monk abilities and just using them as a martial arts mixin/template?
Wombat said:Current game we have Oathbound (and so far only one player has shown any interest in them).
Are these the Oathsworn from AU? There's a setting named Oathbound that I'm completely unfamiliar with. Are they in there?
John Q. Mayhem said:I use oathsworn in my AU rules game, and most of them are human priests of the Dragon-gods, especially the Red Monks of Garyx. Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries is a good PrC for them.
I've just borrowed a copy of Arcana Unearthed to look these oathsworn up. The oathsworn look to be standard monks with alternate flavor text.
John Q. Mayhem said:In Eberron, they're mostly the Valaes Tairn sword-dancers, goblin ninjae, and religious warriors.
Ninja? I don't see that modelling ninja with monks is a good fit. That would be kind of like using the cleric to play a thief.
Aaron L said:I have them set up as warrior-philosophers from a pseudo Greco-Roman culture, recognized as a strict psionic discipline alongside Psions and Psychic Warriors.
Interesting. Have you modified the monk to reflect their more psionic nature?
Tonguez said:I also have a pseudo-Greek/Minoan culture ruled by Scorcerer -Kings on their way to becoming Dragon-gods. The whole culture is into Eugenics with everyone trying to improve themselves physically, mentally and spiritually even going so far as Biomancy (ie creating monsters like Owl Bears, Athachs etc). Here the Bull Leapers of Minos have become Monks who hone their bodies, mind and souls to service of the Dragon-Kings. The Bull Leaping is an initial selection rite, the true training happens afterwards perfecting the body and eventually overcoming physical limitations (whereupon they become outsiders and true guardians of the Dragon-gods)
Since there's an entrance requirement, are monks a prestige class in your world? Not a bad idea.
Tonguez said:But IMHO the best Monk is a Psychic warrior (or at least a Monk with Psionic feats - they rock!)
I see Psychic Warriors as being more like Jedi than monks.
The monk as written is geared more towards physical perfection than spiritual or mental. I've thought about making variant monks that pursue spiritual or mental perfection by devoting themselves to magical or psionic disciplines
Sam