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Tell Me about Rolemaster

Nightchilde-2

First Post
Perhaps off-topic but...

HARP (also by ICE) is pretty close to RM, but uses fewer charts.

Ah, I had some good times with RM. Like the time my ex-wife's character hit a beastie so hard that she actually broke her magic weapon, then a couple of encounters later she ended up getting paralyzed by an iron golem.

The Rolemaster critical charts are, by themselves, a fun read and full of Win and Awesome.
 

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Greg K

Legend
If you a pure or hybrid caster, you can probably get by with 1 body rank every two levels. You are going to want to purchase your ranks in
- your spell lists
- Power Development for more power points to fuel your spells
- Directed Spells for each of the appropriate bolt spells (if applicable)

- Attunement to use the spell abilities of wands, staffs, or any other with spell abiltiies
- Read Runes to use scrolls
- Power Perception to see active magic auras
- Magical Lore skills
- ranks in a mundane weapon for back up
- ranks in perception
- occassional ranks in other skills like riding, climbing, swimming, jumping, various lore skills, first aid, etc.
- skills to round out your character's hobbies, etc. (unless your group's style doesn't revolve around such things).
 

Greg K

Legend
A tip for helping make the game go faster- have one player keep track of hit point loss/penalties, bleeding, stun, power point loss/penalties, etc. for the group members
 

Dragonbait

Explorer
My experience with Rolemaster from 10 years ago:
I want to attack the Orc

Okay, first roll your maneuver roll to move up to attack. Check the table.
Now, roll to hit against his defense.
Now, compare your damage type to his armor type. Look for the comparative table.
Roll to deliver the damage and location of where you hit.

If you got a criticle, you check the criticle hit table.
If you have a criticle miss, check that table.
 

Cirex

First Post
Rolemaster was the first game I played seriously, with whom I "grew up" in the RPG world, so I owe it a lot.

I really can't give that much information like the posters above, but I can say that it can be a fun system. Receiving a critical hit, anxiously waiting for the roll...scary things. Because even an "A" critical with 7 points of damage can end in mutilation (with a '66' or a '100').

If I remember correctly, the dark clerics had dark channeling spells which were super nasty. Mutilation, diseases, etc.

In order to fast up things, every played had a calculator and calculated the offensive bonus minus the defensive bonus and quickly added the dice result.

We played the old one for 2-3 years. Then I started DMing the Lord of the Rings version (way more simple) and shortly after, a new version was released. But we never got to play it actually. My friend still has 2-3 books of it...and getting dust it is.
 

SableWyvern

Adventurer
2. My feeling is that the base RM rules do not give characters enough skill points. It is very hard to get a well-rounded character without sacrficing your non-DP stats. RAW, you need very high skill modifiers to succeed at even basic tasks, which means you have to max out your skills to be effective. This encourages specialization, not customization.

I always gave out 40 bonus DP per level, for rounding out characters. They weren't allowed to be spent on core skills (eg, weapons), but could be spent in some of the more expensive categories, such as Combat Manoeuvres, as well as anything I didn't consider a primary adventuring skill.

That does bring me to a possible character generation pitfall, though -- when assigning stat values, if your GM is using the default DP rules, make sure your DP stats are sufficiently high.

3. Spellcasting is hard. Very hard. For example: It takes three rounds to cast your most powerful spells without a penalty. Then the system seems to favor spell-targets and not spellcasters when it comes to resistance. That's for starters.

This is true, although casting times drop as you level, and instant spells don't suffer from this problem. I don't recall ever noticing a problem with RRs being too easy to make, though. As for Static Spell Casting checks, as I recall it's not all that hard to cast a bit quickly if you make use of all the possible bonuses you accrue (although, if you're playing an Arcane spellcaster in RMSS, Static Spell Casting checks should be avoided at all costs unless you're really desperate.

It is especially difficult for semi-spellcasters to learn a variety of spell-lists.

RMSS did make this harder for semis, but I think the result is more balanced than previous editions. Semis tend to rule at high levels even with this change. I don't believe pure spell users are at all hard done by with their spell costs.

5. The rule books are poorly organized. There are lots of charts, which would be OK if it was easy to find the ones you need. There is no one place that has all the rules and charts needed for spellcasting. You also have to be pretty smart to figure out the Moving Maneuver system. I am talking about RMSS/RMFRP here. Maybe other versions are better.

RM2 is worse. RM1 was worse again by an order of magnitude. I'm not sure about new editions such as RMC.

6. You can't really play the skills system as written. There is no such thing as an untrained skill and you get a base -30 for a skill you're not trained in. In theory, almost everything requires a skill roll, and it's very hard to get a success without a high bonus. Again, this is RMSS/RMFRP. I think most DMs just eyeball skill rolls and ignore skill checks if the characters aren't trained.

The major problem is the fine granularity of skills. Technically, you need Prepare Poison, Use/Remove Poison and Poison Lore to be an effective poisoner, and some of those are expensive. Consolidating the skill list, or allowing skills to enhance other skills, rather then being prerequisite parts of a skill chain makes a big difference.

7. Because of the crit system, the party needs at least one dedicated healer, such as a cleric or lay healer. No UMD to use a wand of cure light wounds! And even a dedicated healer will not always be able to get the job done.

Well, it helps. Depending on how much downtime the group is prepared to suffer through, the availability of herbs (and the money to buy them) and what kind of mundane healing rules you're using, you may be able to get away with a dedicated second-string healer (such as a paladin).
 

Jhaelen

First Post
Well, my gaming experiences with Rolemaster have been universally bad.

I guess in theory with a capable GM that has full mastery of the rules and is able to find all of the required tables in a reasonable amount of time it _might_ even be fun at least some of the time...

The game system doesn't get a good score when comparing playability vs. realism. Runequest is my all-time favorite in that respect, btw.

It _might_ be an okay system if used as a basis for a strategical computer rpg but as a pen-and-paper rpg it simply fails, imho.

I guess, Harnmaster is a bit better, but I haven't actually played it yet myself, so I'll reserve final judgement. At least the supplements are of very good quality.
 

Greg K

Legend
1. They say RM is customizable. However, it is even more a class-based system than D&D. You can't multi-class in RM. It's not usually adviseable to create an "non-standard" version of your character class. There are just a lot more classes to choose from

2. My feeling is that the base RM rules do not give characters enough skill points. It is very hard to get a well-rounded character without sacrficing your non-DP stats. RAW, you need very high skill modifiers to succeed at even basic tasks, which means you have to max out your skills to be effective. This encourages specialization, not customization.
It's customizable because you can learn any skill or spells.

Imo, it should not be easy to multiclass unless you have huge amounts of downtime and, by downtime, I mean months or years- look at the training time to pick up a training package. If you are off on quests adventuring, you don't have that time which is why I one of few big issues with DND 3e is the multiclassing system.

As for maxing out skills to be effective and that encouraging specialization, that is a group or player playstyle issue and one that I have encountered far more often among DND players unwilling to purchase cross-class skills. Yes, there are might be a few skills that players will max out, because unlike DND, you don't get automatic increases to BAB or automatic spell knowledge as you progress. However, in the various RM groups that I have played with I have only encountered one player that overly specialized. The other players would think about their character concept and background and then build that character spending ranks on background skills and hobby skills (e.g., knowledge skills, evaluate (type), play musical instrument, storytelling, streetwise), an interaction and anything else that fit the concept (and character level). Then as the game progressed, theybuy ranks appropriate to the skills they had been using or to represent knowledge that the character acquired in game.
Obviously, we have had different experiences and I am pointing out that not everyone's is the same as yours.

3. Spellcasting is hard. Very hard. For example: It takes three rounds to cast your most powerful spells without a penalty. Then the system seems to favor spell-targets and not spellcasters when it comes to resistance. That's for starters.
Does it favor spell targets? Assuming a non ball or bolt spell which are handled as attacks, the base save is 50% provided the level of the target and the caster are the same and varies up or down depending upon who is higher or lower level, how well the spell was cast, and armor worn by the target (depending upon caster's realm).


4. There is a rule that makes it very expensive to learn more than five spell lists per level. However, you can learn up to three ranks without a penalty. But you're penalized if you cast a spell that's higher than your level?!? One of RM's strengths is its wide selection of spells. Many of the spell lists are utility-oriented. It is not easy to sacrifice precious skill points to learn them. It's even worse in the basic RM system where you pay points to have the chance to learn a list, many of whose spells you may not be of sufficiently high level to cast.
Because learning the spell well enough to have some grasp of casting it is not the same as mastering it. And, the more spells you know of a given theme, gives you a better grasp of more advanced concepts than trying to pick up something entirely new.

It is especially difficult for semi-spellcasters to learn a variety of spell-lists.
Um, could that be that they are not dedicated spellcasters. And, unlike in DND Paladins and Rangers can actually cast spells at first level

5. The rule books are poorly organized. There are lots of charts, which would be OK if it was easy to find the ones you need. There is no one place that has all the rules and charts needed for spellcasting.
This one I agree with. There are areas of the rules that are poorly organized.

You also have to be pretty smart to figure out the Moving Maneuver system. I am talking about RMSS/RMFRP here. Maybe other versions are better.
What did you have problems with?

6. You can't really play the skills system as written. There is no such thing as an untrained skill and you get a base -30 for a skill you're not trained in. In theory, almost everything requires a skill roll, and it's very hard to get a success without a high bonus.
I don't think you have a strong grasp of the skill system. It is very playable.
You are almost correct about there being no untrained skills. Without ranks in reading/writing a given language you can't even recognzie the writing and without ranks in speaking a language you cannot recognize the spoken word. However, this makes sense. There are few skills that anyone should not be able to attempt. You can try to do a backflip or pick a lock untrained and get lucky enough to succeed. Something that at least one of the 3e designers eventually came around to realize and even wrote a web article regarding it.

Also, in RMSS you automatically get some ranks in skill groups (via race or class) which reduce the penalties for certain groups. You also get bonuses to rolls for for tasks that are Routine, Easy or Light and, depending upon the skill or skill category other situational bonuses.

Again, this is RMSS/RMFRP. I think most DMs just eyeball skill rolls and ignore skill checks if the characters aren't trained.
Not in my experience. And many skill attempts give you partial successes which allow you to try again with a bonus.

7. Because of the crit system, the party needs at least one dedicated healer, such as a cleric or lay healer. No UMD to use a wand of cure light wounds! And even a dedicated healer will not always be able to get the job done.

The Atunement skill is Rolemaster's version of Use Magical Device. However, yes, it is a good idea to have a dedicated healer (even if an NPC) and they can't always get the job done.
 
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Urbannen

First Post
It's customizable because you can learn any skill or spells.

That's true and it's not true - the specialized spells and skills are so expensive for unrelated classes as to make them impractical to learn. Sometimes the DP cost is so high as to make it virtually impossible.

Imo, it should not be easy to multiclass unless you have huge amounts of downtime and, by downtime, I mean months or years- look at the training time to pick up a training package. If you are off on quests adventuring, you don't have that time which is why I one of few big issues with DND 3e is the multiclassing system.

I say D&D is customizable because of its multi-classing option. That doesn't mean that I like it or that it makes sense. I personally prefer single-class systems.

Does it favor spell targets?

Well, it favors those who wear armor, IME. I remember trying to cast Animal Sleep on some worgs who were wearing metal armor. My 2nd level animist's spell had a 25% chance to succeed on 3rd level creatures (after spending three rounds casting, of course).

Because learning the spell well enough to have some grasp of casting it is not the same as mastering it.

RAW, pure spellcasters can max out 15 spell lists without going over their 5 lists per level limit. They can learn 3 ranks of 5 lists every level. 15 lists covers their base lists and 9 out of 20 closed/open lists. That's a lot of lists they don't have access to, and they will probably not choose to develop the lists with limited usefulness. Or if they are a healer, they will have to spend points in lists that have very limited usesfulness, like Nerve Law. Doing so leaves few skill points left for other stuff, like Lore.

Anyway, 2 out of 3 levels they are spending skill points on spell lists ranks that they cannot safely cast. IMO they should be able to develop one rank in all 15 lists each level, with the option of overdevelopment.

Um, could that be that [semi-spell casters] are not dedicated spellcasters

Looking at the rules again, semi-spell casters can develop most of their base lists for about a third of their DP. That's not too bad.

I don't think you have a strong grasp of the skill system. It is very playable

It is playable, but it is too hard to get reliable successes, especially outside of your class's expertise. I do understand the Moving Manuever system, it just took me a while. My problem is that skills are much harder to use in RM than in, say, D&D. In RM you have to role 111 to succeed at a normal task. That's like a DC 22 in D&D. Routine tasks require an 81 (111-30). That's like a DC 16. I know there are rules for re-trys, but in the end you have to roll a 111 to actually succeed. In RM it is also very easy to rack up the penalties. In order to routinely get your 111, you have to have very high bonuses. The best way to get those bonuses is to focus on the skills you can most cheaply get multiple ranks of every level.

I don't think most RM DMs play the 111=success system strictly, however, which is probably a good thing.
 
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Rechan

Adventurer
Yikes. The more I hear, the more I'm actually adverse to the system. Realism is not something I see as a positive attribtue, nor am I good at math on my feet (as Cirex pointed out using calculators just to speed things up!?).

The process sounds fairly labored, with several steps just to resolve a single action.
 
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