Tell me about these older edition products [old list]

[diaglo]

Vecna wasn't incorporated into Greyhawk canon until 2e.

he was mentioned in the 1edADnD DMG (1979 revised). artifacts & relics.

he just wasn't made into a god. or given his own demiplane or so on...

 

[Voadam]

I'm interested in this one mainly to learn more about the background of classic monsters. How much fluff is there for each monster entry?

The 1e FF has about the same level of monster description as the 1e MM and 1e MM II, short entries with a bit longer discourse on devil and demon categories. It does list who originally wrote the individual monsters (like moderator plane sailing who created the shadow demon and qullan) and has some fun art. If you want more in depth backgrounds the 2e Fiend Folio appendix does them in the in-depth 2e style. I don't own the 2e FF appendix but 2e goes much more in-depth for most monsters in general.

 

[(un)reason]

I can't speak for Vecna Lives! but Die Vecna Die! is about how Vecna ascended to godhood (as in 3e). He broke free of being imprisoned in Ravenloft by somehow tricking Iuz (I can't remember how) and using Iuz as a patsy in the grand scheme.

Along with Dead gods, this is notable because it's not only a module where canonically, the PC's lose, but the reprecussions of it's events become core assumptions in the next edition, so even if you buck the trend and get off the railroad, you have to deal with all the books after that assuming that vecna is now a god, doing goddy things, and change the plots accordingly.

 

[Voadam]

Domains of Dread. I own it and ran Ravenloft back in 2e. I had both the original black box, DoD, and then the 3e setting.

DoD IIRC was post conjunction and pre grim harvest. This means Darkon is a vibrant D&D land instead of a necropolis. It was a major effort at making PCs natives of Ravenloft instead of victims trying to escape.

I didn't care for the art in DoD as much as in the original black box. I also didn't really care for the spin on demihumans who are each presented as worshipping a different human pantheon (dwarves-norse, elves-celtic, gnomes-greek, etc.). It is a good all in one reference, though I prefer the tone and feel of the black box and love the statless player appropriate descriptions with only hints at the darklords that the 3e CS presents.

 

[Dimitri Mazieres]

[...]DoD IIRC was post conjunction and pre grim harvest. This means Darkon is a vibrant D&D land instead of a necropolis. It was a major effort at making PCs natives of Ravenloft instead of victims trying to escape.[...]

To be precise, Domains of Dread was post Grand Conjunction and post Grim Harvest, as well. So in DoD, Darkon was "Necropolis", with the weird event of everyone there suddenly referring to their domain by the new name after the events detailed in Requiem.

IMHO opinion, and as was stated by previous posters, DoD was the best version of the campaign setting for AD&D, turning the demiplane into a setting that could be used as a native setting, and unifying all the plots developed up until then.

As for the criticism it received, if I remember correctly, they revolved mostly about:

• The (somewhat arbitrary) prohibition of some character classes (Bard, Druid and Paladin) which were substituted with new classes that, while not bad, lacked the same flavor as the classic ones (Avenger, Arcanists, Anchorites and Gypsies)

• The map which was, literally, dark domains with dark dots for towns, dark lines for roads, and dark dotted lines for borders.

• The layout wasn't the best. For example, domains weren't described in alphabetical order, but following a sort of clockwise direction, according to the map.

• Some people objected the inclusion of the character creation appendix, which included information from the PHB (ability scores, races, classes), instead of devoting those pages for more setting information. AFAIC, it was convenient.

The art was pretty good, IMHO. It included such traditional Ravenloft artists as Mark Nelson, which did most of the interior illustrations. There were a few less than spectacular pieces (the ranger illustration comes to mind), but they were the minority.
However, my personal favorite Ravenloft artist, Kevin McCann, would only appear in later products. His illustrations provided the quintessential Ravenloft atmosphere.

Ok, I've derailed this conversation enough. Please, continue.

 

[Knightfall]

Underline emphasis added.

The 1e FF has about the same level of monster description as the 1e MM and 1e MM II, short entries with a bit longer discourse on devil and demon categories. It does list who originally wrote the individual monsters (like moderator plane sailing who created the shadow demon and qullan) and has some fun art. If you want more in depth backgrounds the 2e Fiend Folio appendix does them in the in-depth 2e style. I don't own the 2e FF appendix but 2e goes much more in-depth for most monsters in general.

That alone is a great reason to get it.

I had the 2e Fiend Folio at one point, but I think I'd rather have 1e version at this point.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Die Vecna Die this SUCKS, in all probablility if you like Ravenloft and Planescape, grrr. Wonder if my cousin's sold my copy on EBay yet? think he did.

Dungeon Master's Guide [1e] pure class, if only to see how the game started, insights etc
Fiend Folio [1e] bloody awesome!! Great art, you get to see how many creatures started, probably the best 1st ed product.

Ravenloft: Domains of Dread [2e hard cover] -- This book is definitely available at a used book store here in Edmonton. that rings a bell.

Reverse Dungeon fun, actually!

TSR Jam 1999 , cool in a purely non-wanting-to-play-it, way.

tell you what I like: the AD&D trading cards. I have the 3 boxed sets that were released. Cool art, quick NPCs for older games, etc

And...Spelljammer rocks *points to his signature* !!

 

[Knightfall]

TSR Jam 1999 , cool in a purely non-wanting-to-play-it, way.

Can you explain, please?

tell you what I like: the AD&D trading cards. I have the 3 boxed sets that were released. Cool art, quick NPCs for older games, etc

I've got a whole binder of those. I wish I could still find them in some fashion... locally. I'm sure I could find them on E-Bay but I'm not into buying things on E-Bay.

And...Spelljammer rocks *points to his signature* !!

Agreed. I still want to re-acquire both Greyspace and Krynnspace.

BTW Silverblade, I never bought any of the Spelljammer adventures so I'm not sure which ones of those were any good. I know there weren't too many of them. Which ones stand out in your mind?

 

[Shemeska]

Along with Dead gods, this is notable because it's not only a module where canonically, the PC's lose, but the reprecussions of it's events become core assumptions in the next edition, so even if you buck the trend and get off the railroad, you have to deal with all the books after that assuming that vecna is now a god, doing goddy things, and change the plots accordingly.

Vecna was already a god by that point however, albeit "only" a demigod.

Secondly, none of the things that change between 3e and 2e actually resemble the list of changes that can happen at the end of Die Vecna Die. Vecna rising a bit in divine status is the only thing can might remotely be linked in, but even so that's a bit of a stretch.

That said, DVD has little redeeming value as a module, as it butchers the atmosphere and core assumptions not only of Ravenloft, but a good bit of Vecna's backhistory, and Planescape. Not only does the module attempt to define 'The Serpent' (something previously intended to be simply a combination of Vecna's madness and his own personfication of magic) as an evil super being, but it attempts to define the power and nature of The Lady of Pain, something which was anathema to the Planescape setting.

And let's not get into the Vecna body parts misc. that show up in the module, like the Fingernail of Vecna, the Scalp of Vecna, etc. It gets a tad absurd.

Suffice to say, I do not think highly of the module. Probably a C+ grade all things considered(the interior details of Citadel Cavitius aren't bad, and I used them in my own campaign).

 

[VectorSigma]

I confess I have a soft spot in my heart for the Book of Marvelous Magic, as it was the first D&D book I bought with my own money (remember those days?).

It's pretty decent, especially when you consider its age. Looking at it now, there's plenty of stuff in there that's no surprise, but there are still a few doozies that make you say "I don't think I ever would have come up with that, but I can totally think of a way to use it". My favorite would be the "xyphoid xebec", essentially a sword +1 that, should you chuck it in the ocean, turns into a boat (and back again on command, I think). Flavorful as all get out.