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Testament from Green Ronin!!!

storyguide3

First Post
About Egypt

A question for those who have this book. Is the information on Egypt more or less historical (with added magical goodness), or is it heavily coloured by the biblical accounts? In other words, are they painted as the bad guys, enslaving Israel, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I am very curious about this book, but I have some pet hangups about how Egypt gets portrayed that might affect my purchase descisions. Any info would be helpful.
 

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Mark Chance

Boingy! Boingy!
Re: About Egypt

storyguide3 said:
A question for those who have this book. Is the information on Egypt more or less historical (with added magical goodness), or is it heavily coloured by the biblical accounts? In other words, are they painted as the bad guys, enslaving Israel, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Just to nitpick, but the Israelites were enslaved in Egypt. Going with the generally accepted date of 1550 B.C. as the time period, the oppression of the Israelites would have followed the overthrow of the Hyksos, a Semitic people who had conquered and poorly-treated Egypt. It is possible that the Israelites, also a Semitic people, were caught up in a wave of retaliation with Egyptians not making a distinction between one Semitic group and another.

From Ancient Near Eastern Texts relating to the Old Testament (ANET), edited by James Pritchard, we find this victory inscription of Pharoah Merneptah, son of Rameses II:

"The princes are prostrate, saying: 'Mercy!'
Not one raises his head among the Nine Bows.
Desolation is for Tehunu; Hatti is pacified;
Plundered is the Canaan with every evil;
Carried off is Ashkelon; seized upon is Gezer;
Yanoam is made as that which does not exist;
Israel is laid waste, his seed is not;
Hurru has become a widow for Egypt!"

To be sure there is some hyperbole in this inscription, but the activities praised in it can be fairly characterized as the sorts of things the "bad guys" do.

The most likely date for the exodus is between 1300 and 1280 BC, during the reign of Ramses II. Also in ANET (259, to be precise), there is a letter that discusses an attempt by a group of slaves to escape Egypt. Apparently, such slave escape attempts were common under Ramses II.

Now, one could argue that a nation that invades and enslaves others isn't all bad and be on safe enough ground, but to object that such violence is portrayed negatively seems a bit much.

BTW, I too would like to buy Testament. :)
 
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Fenes 2

First Post
Re: Re: About Egypt

Mark Chance said:
Now, one could argue that a nation that invades and enslaves others isn't all bad and be on safe enough ground, but to object that such violence is portrayed negatively seems a bit much.

I "dimly remember" that invading other nations and enslaving their people was common in old times - the greek did it, the egyptians did it, romans did it, israelites did it.

Can we keep out religion from this thread? I too would simply like to know if the different cultures are portrayed equally.
 

Mark Chance

Boingy! Boingy!
Re: About Egypt

Fenes 2 said:
I "dimly remember" that invading other nations and enslaving their people was common in old times - the greek did it, the egyptians did it, romans did it, israelites did it.

Did I say something to the contrary? Let me re-read my post real quick. Nope. Nothing to the contrary.

Fenes 2 said:
Can we keep out religion from this thread? I too would simply like to know if the different cultures are portrayed equally.

Who brought up religion? I know I didn't.

I did point the historical facts of the matter regarding a certain historical period in the relationship between Israel and Egypt. I didn't mention religion. I didn't claim any special virtue for one group over another. If you're reading some sort of religious agenda into easily verifiable historical facts, that probably speaks more to your own issues than anything else.

:rolleyes:
 

7997

First Post
Testsment was in the the NO BUY catagory for me, but after thumbing through it at my FLGS, I was frickin' immpressed. Now Testement is on the YES BUY list, after I pick up 3.5. I love it when I have low or no expectations for a product and it turns out be sweet.

JP
 

Fenes 2

First Post
Re: Re: About Egypt

Mark Chance said:


Did I say something to the contrary? Let me re-read my post real quick. Nope. Nothing to the contrary.



Who brought up religion? I know I didn't.

I did point the historical facts of the matter regarding a certain historical period in the relationship between Israel and Egypt. I didn't mention religion. I didn't claim any special virtue for one group over another. If you're reading some sort of religious agenda into easily verifiable historical facts, that probably speaks more to your own issues than anything else.

:rolleyes:

Point taken. Apparently I misunderstood your comment.

Although I am still not quite clear on your opinion. I believe storyguide3 just wanted to know if the egypts were painted as the bad guys while the other nations' atrocities were glossed over.

Do you think it "is a bit much" to expect that all nations in the book be portrayed with equal standards?
 

Mark Chance

Boingy! Boingy!
Re: About Egypt

Fenes 2 said:
Although I am still not quite clear on your opinion.

About what? It is not my opinion that, for a time, Israelites were enslaved in Egypt. That is a fact, and facts are stubborn things, as I believe Harry S Truman observed.

Fenes 2 said:
I believe storyguide3 just wanted to know if the egypts were painted as the bad guys while the other nations' atrocities were glossed over.

That's a good question. What I was reacting to was storyguide3's comment: "In other words, are [the Egyptians] painted as the bad guys, enslaving Israel, yadda, yadda, yadda" (emphasis mine).

Now, maybe someone else can think of a nice guy way to enslave a people....

Fenes 2 said:
Do you think it "is a bit much" to expect that all nations in the book be portrayed with equal standards?

Not at all. I much prefer that to wishy-washy cultural relativism that attempts to excuse a people's or nation's wrongdoings as being just one of an infinitely large number of perfectly valid choices.

To hazard a guess, from all that I've seen and read about Testament, it is probably too even-handed in an effort to not offend anyone. It is certain that no one can accurately accuse Testament as being some sort of apologetic for Judaism against its Ancient Near East competitors.
 
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Fenes 2

First Post
Re: Re: About Egypt

Mark Chance said:
Not at all. I much prefer that to wishy-washy cultural relativism that attempts to excuse a people's or nation's wrongdoings as being just one of an infinitely large number of perfectly valid choices.

To hazard a guess, from all that I've seen and read about Testament, it is probably too even-handed in an effort to not offend anyone. It is certain that no one can accurately accuse Testament as being some sort of apologetic for Judaism against its Ancient Near East competitors.

Too even-handed? I am not sure I understand what you mean by that. Do you mean that in the sense that the principle of treating equal things equally and unequal things unequally has been broken?

As far as "enslaving" is concerned, there is a difference between not-nice and evil - burning a whole city down with all in it is, imho, worse than enslaving its people.
 



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