D&D 4E The "4E Crowd" - where will they go? What will they play?

[Challenger RPG]

Excellent thread, [MENTION=59082]Mercurius[/MENTION]. I really enjoyed reading it.

I guess I'd be classified as a Serious Gamer by the types you set out. However, I prefer that, as I have other interests and work. That said, I've been designing, writing, playing, and gaming for years. I've played all editions of D&D and practically every notable RPG on the face of the earth (and quite a number of obscure ones too). I'd love to attend more conventions, but where I live it's not terribly practical or economical.

When 4E came out I wasn't completely satisfied. So I just wrote my own RPG system and now my groups play that. I look forward to seeing what 5E comes out with, I've enjoyed a number of 4E games, and I really respect [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] for what they're doing. I know a gamer who loves 3E/3.5 with a loyalty which makes me a little jealous. I don't think I'll ever be able to get her to play anything else without serious effort.

So, while I'm interested in seeing where 5E, [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate], Monte Cook's, and the rest's games are headed; I've always got my own RPG to keep me occupied in the meantime.

Merry Christmas and Happy 2013, Everyone!

 

[Mark CMG]

I'd like to tease out and clarify one of my points, which is that the "4E crowd" doesn't have as distinct or faithful or, probably, lasting an identity as the "3.x crowd" (which has largely morphed into the "[notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate] crowd"). I've said this before, but it is my sense that 4E will be similar to 2E - sort of lost in the mix, with some continued players but less than the editions before and after it. I imagine that there are less people playing 2E than there are 1E (or a modified 1E, or OSRIC).

I'm sure someone has said it, but it might be that D&D editions are like Star Trek movies - it is the even numbered ones that get re-watched ad remembered (although 1 is under-rated, imo, and 3 was decent, if only as a bridge between 2 and 4, the two best ST movies imo; and of course after 8 it all went into the crapper...but I digress).

Do you mean the opposite regarding ST compared with D&D editions?

I've largely been a "single-system gamer" although not by choice. I've played games other than D&D throughout the years, but rarely more than for a few sessions and not as frequently as I would have liked. A large part of this just comes down to availability and convenience. Right now I'm the only "serious" gamer in my group, so I'm the only one who has a sense of the breadth and depth of the RPG world or who owns multiple game systems. But I think that's just it: groups comprised of hardcore and serious gamers are more likely to play multiple RPGs, whereas your typical D&D group - which is usually comprised of one or two serious gamers and a bunch of casual gamers - just plays D&D and never really veers from it.

In my experience, hardcore and serious gamers tend to find one another and play in multiple groups, certainly regarding gamedays and conventions. I'm not saying you can't call yourself a serious gamer if you just play with a single group of otherwise casual gamers in a single system for years on end, of course, but that's probably less serious than someone who goes to events and plays with two or more groups of gamers, etc. I know one guy that, despite living fairly far afield, plays three or four evenings a week online with various groups for a couple/few hours each time, only gets to a convention once in a great while, but is very active on forums and plays multiple systems. I'd have to call him a serious gamer for sure.

 

[Ajar]

I'm a serious gamer by the OP's measure. I run and play in all 4E games currently, be it virtual tabletop, play by post, or the live tabletop WotBS game I started running that's been on hiatus for a while. I grew up on gold box basic and then later 2E AD&D, and although I did play in d20/3.x games and run two, D&D wasn't as big a part of my life in the 3.x era as it was in 2E. I was initially apprehensive about 4E's release -- I was happy running Iron Heroes and using True Sorcery for magic. But when I sat down and played 4E at a table, I was instantly sold, and haven't looked back. My long-running Iron Heroes campaign ended this month after 5 years, and while it was satisfying to bring the narrative to a close, I'm honestly relieved to be finally shelving d20 for good as a DM. I'd play d20 or [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate], but I'm not willing to run them; the system just doesn't work for me as a DM.

What I want out of any fantasy RPG before I'll switch is ease of prep and play from the DM's side. If 5E matches or exceeds 4E in that area, I'll consider it once it's actually out. For now I'm keeping an eye on the playtest packets, and I'm neutral to lukewarm positive on what I'm seeing. I haven't tried it at the table, though, so I'm not sure if I'll have a revelatory moment similar to what I had with 4E when I actually play it.

As it is, though, my Zeitgeist players are only at level 5 and I'm planning to run the entire campaign all the way to level 30, so even if a new game comes into one of my groups, I'll be running 4E for years to come no matter what happens with 5E, 13th Age, Savage Worlds, or any of the other systems that I'm interested in checking out.

 

[GrahamWills]

I guess I must be hardcore, having just bought a specialist gaming table, and, as of last week, playing in long-running campaigns of 3.5 (4 years), 4e (LFR -- played over 200 games), Supernatural (3 years) and a home-brew. I run regular Call of Cthulhu (3.5 feet of shelf space) and Doctor Who, and have just finished up a long-running game of characters some of whom started in 2e, and who I brought through 3.5 and then 4e up to level 30. Grand final in 3 weeks. That's in the last decade. Before then I was a Rolemaster / MERP / AD&D regular, but played year long campaigns of Champions, GURPS, Deadlands (original) and Savage Worlds (actually that might have been this decade). Oh, and Everway too. And I ran some Big Eyes Small Mouth for maybe half a year. Wait -- forgot my wife ran us through a 1-20 Star Wars Saga campaign.

Do I need help?

Anyway, I have been happier with each edition as it goes along, except 3.5 at high level which I passionately despise. However I currently don't see much in 5e that makes me think I'll like it terribly much. My current candidates for an extended campaign are:

* 13th Age. I agree with some previous posters -- this is the natural next edition for 4e fans. So clean and focused on making D&D better that it makes current 5e playtest materials look terrible by comparison.
* Savage Worlds. This would be much less complex, but I think it has enough good stuff and has great support to make it both "fast, furious fun" AND sufficiently detailed to keep an extended detailed campaign going. The Savage Mojo people have some cool extra stuff I think will work well for me.
* Numenera. I can see why Monte and wizards split, and, frankly, Monte's track record is better (I might be biased because of Monte's previous work for ICE, which I loved -- as well as his WOTC work and Ptolus!). I like the playtest materials and, although it won't feel like D&D, it may win out for a change of pace for a couple of years.

OK. Back to designing a set of encounters for five level 30 4e characters who need to fly into the Far Realms, recover the head of the recently deceased god Hextor, escape, and close the Living Gate that has been opened to let the far realms escape and they only temporarily re-closed. Last session (a 11 hour epic) finished with a combat involving 8 level 32-34 clockworks (half elite), 8 misc level 26-30s, a dragon (34), demon (32) a minor god (unleveled) and a wand-wielding level 34 wizard (re-themed beholder with multiple adjectives like "eternal" and "tyrant" and "nooooo ... run away!"). Any ideas welcome. I have the plot all in order, just need some coolness with encounters. Curently reading Zenoscope's wonderland graphic novels as the mix of Cthulhu and Alice in Wonderland feels pretty close to what might work ...

 

[C4]

I suppose that writing the Complete 4th Edition makes me hardcore, or close to it. I don't really know anything about 13th Age, but I've put a lot of time into preserving 4e in organized, errataed, and tweaked pdf form because like many others, I'm not naive enough to think that WotC will keep 4e material indefinitely a part of DDI. Some of of my players use the CB, but none of us feel that 4e is anywhere near unplayable without software help.

I don't see anything especially appealing in 5e, and I'm my group's primary DM. So long story short, it's 4e for me and mine for the foreseeable future!

 

[JeffB]

I'm thinking Knights & Knaves Alehouse..maybe Dragonsfoot

 

[Morrus]

I'm thinking Knights & Knaves Alehouse..maybe Dragonsfoot

I'm kinda hoping on [notranslate]EN World[/notranslate], myself.

 

[Mark CMG]

Do I need help?

Breaking in the table? Nope. I think you've got that covered.

 

[dkyle]

My 4E campaign ended last year, and I've been running something else since. While 4E is by far my favorite edition of D&D, I didn't really want to run D&D any more, and wanted to try something else (a sandbox-ish sci-fi game). Meanwhile, others in my group are running Dungeon World, and Savage Worlds. If I had the opportunity to play in a 4E campaign, I would, but noone in my group is interested in running it.

Based on where D&D:Next has been going, I think my group is probably lost to the D&D brand for the foreseeable future. If 5E were going to be an improved 4E, I might have been tempted to switch my campaign over to a reflavoring of it when it came out, but as it is, that is extremely unlikely to happen, and I don't see anyone else in my group wanting to run D&D of any sort.

 

[Azgulor]

I'd say by the OP's criteria I'm a serious gamer but would gladly be a hardcore RPGer if real life would permit it.

In 2012, I've brought 10 new gamers into the hobby, but we're all playing [notranslate]Pathfinder[/notranslate]. Some have never heard of D&D and for some, it's a game that their dad played.

Which is to say, my own anecdotal experience hasn't encountered hardcore/serious 4e players/GMs.