The Abyss: Infinite or 666 layers?

[King_Stannis]

I've been reading the book of vile darkness, and came upon the Demon Lords and the Abyss. Several times it says the layers are infinite.

Am I the only one who doesn't share that view? Somewhere along the way, I thought that someone had the Abyss at 666 layers. I subscribe to that theory rather than the "infinite abyss" view. surely there is nothing wrong with the Abyss being neverending, but personally, I like things to be defined and concrete. That's why I like the 9 hells, and the fact that there is indeed an ending level.

What do you all think? Anyone with me? Thoughts or comments?

 

[Kilmore]

Short answer: If you are DM, it is as you wish.

Longer answer: I don't think anybody's real sure about the actual number. I'd imagine that the most that have been documented reliably could be a couple hundred at most, with the number "666" being extracted from a demon, reliable as they are.

At any rate, each plane of the Abyss may be infinite, and there's 666 of them.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Somewhere along the way, I thought that someone had the Abyss at 666 layers.

infinite levels of the Abyss is new to 3e in the Manual of the Planes, in 1e and 2e it was 666

 

[King_Stannis]

Re: Re: The Abyss: Infinite or 666 layers?

infinite levels of the Abyss is new to 3e in the Manual of the Planes, in 1e and 2e it was 666

A-ha! I knew I wasn't crazy. Thanks Mr. Fidgit.

 

[Lordnightshade]

Well, the abyss is infinite, by its chaotic nature it could never conform to something as rigid and contained as having a set number of layers. 666 layers is a number that some philosophers and sages have tried to give to the Abyss, however, the Fraternity of order has catalogued more layers than that and they have just barley scraped the surface that is the enormity of the Abyss.

The depth of the infinite pit is truly unknown, even to the gods, it is beyond comprehension.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

I'd say by the very nature of the Abyss, there aren't only an infinite number of layers, but an uncountably infinite number of layers. That is to say, I wouldn't be surprised if there were an infinite number in irrational planes that existed between every so-called "integer" plane.

Integers are a tool invented by humans who can't comprehend the true complexities of the multiverse

 

[Xeeker]

I think the abyss is infinite since new demons are created all the time, otherwise there would have to be an immense overflow of demons (well there is, but you know what i mean)

 

[Arnwyn]

Re: Re: The Abyss: Infinite or 666 layers?

infinite levels of the Abyss is new to 3e in the Manual of the Planes, in 1e and 2e it was 666

Actually, close but not quite.

I'm assuming we're talking "officially" here?

If so, in 1e it was 666, but in 2e and 3e it's infinite. (The 2e Planescape box set "Planes of Chaos" specifically notes that the Abyss is infinite, and even goes so far as to note what's on a bunch of the layers, including #668 - and it wasn't a typo.)

Personally, I'm happy with it being infinite.

 

[King_Stannis]

Re: Re: Re: The Abyss: Infinite or 666 layers?

Personally, I'm happy with it being infinite.

Just curious why? Is it THAT much better because it's infinite? I suppose it boils down to personal taste.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I initially thought the change from 666 to infinite was some sort appeasement to the moral majority (that hate D&D anyway so there was never any point pandering to them in the first place).

However, researching occult lore; the Abyss (the Bottomless Pit lets remember) is actually meant to be infinite.

The number 666 has ever been associated with the Devil; and by association therefore lawful evil (in D&D terminology). So seemingly the number 666, while steeped in esoteric conotations, has absolutely no bearing on the Abyss itself.

So to answer your question: infinite.

Incidently predating Dantes Inferno; classically there was only one Hell which was itself divided into four quarters (north; south; east; west). Each presided over by a Great King (one of which was Mammon); the whole ruled by the Emperor, Lucifer.