The AD&D ability score generation method that never was

[vivsavage]

Just for fun, I calculated how ability score generation could occur just using the minimum/maximum scores by race as given in the 2e AD&D PHB. Crazy stuff! If you notice any errors, let me know.

Would you enjoy this type of ability generation method? Feel free to create some characters and see what classes best fit the results.

Dwarf
STR 2d6 + 6 (8-18)
DEX 3d6-1 (2-17)
CON 1d4 + d6 + 9 (11-19)
INT 3d6 (3-18)
WIS 3d6 (3-18)
CHA 2d8 +1 (3-17)

Elf
STR 3d6 (3-18)
DEX 1d4+ 2d6 + 3 (6-19)
CON 1d12+6 (7-18)
INT 2d6+6 (8-18)
WIS 3d6 (3-18)
CHA 2d6+6 (8-18)

Gnome
STR d6+d8+4 (6-18)
DEX 3d6 (3-18)
CON 2d6+6 (8-18)
INT 1d4+ 2d6 + 3 (6-19)
WIS 1d8+d10 (2-18)
CHA 3d6 (3-18)

Half-elf
STR 3d6 (3-18)
DEX 1d6+d8+4 (6-18)
CON 1d6+d8+4 (6-18)
INT 2d8+2 (4-18)
WIS 3d6 (3-18)
CHA 3d6 (3-18)

Halfling
STR 1d12+6 (7-18)
DEX d6+d8+5 (7-19)
CON 1d4 + 1d6 + 8 (10-18)
INT d6+d8+4 (6-18)
WIS 2d8 +1 (3-17)
CHA 3d6

 

[Greenfield]

Hmm.

Short answer? No.

Longer answer, probably involving lots of math and statistical breakdowns to follow. Or not.

I'm thinking not.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Would you enjoy this type of ability generation method?

I would not.

The first thing I noticed is that, since you're rolling different dice for each stat, you can't arrange anything to taste. You're stuck with the stats in that order, which makes it even less likely than usual that you would qualify for some fun class (where non-human races already have smaller lists of classes available to them).

The second thing I noticed is that different stats use different numbers of dice, resulting in different distributions. Some them use three dice, providing a normal distribution. Some of them use one die, which gives a linear distribution. That doesn't sit well with me, for some reason.

 

[solamon77]

I would not.

The first thing I noticed is that, since you're rolling different dice for each stat, you can't arrange anything to taste. You're stuck with the stats in that order, which makes it even less likely than usual that you would qualify for some fun class (where non-human races already have smaller lists of classes available to them).

The second thing I noticed is that different stats use different numbers of dice, resulting in different distributions. Some them use three dice, providing a normal distribution. Some of them use one die, which gives a linear distribution. That doesn't sit well with me, for some reason.

That's how characters used to be made back in the Gygax days. You rolled 6 numbers and assigned them to the ability scores in the order they came up. Kids these days are spoiled by the points-buy method! Back in my day, we used to have to carve our own dice from a hyena's femur that we hunted ourselves before the game!

As for the topic at hand, I wouldn't have minded giving that method a try. The only problem I can see is that it would give the PC playing as a non-human race a big boost over the PC playing as a human.

 

[vivsavage]

The second thing I noticed is that different stats use different numbers of dice, resulting in different distributions. Some them use three dice, providing a normal distribution. Some of them use one die, which gives a linear distribution. That doesn't sit well with me, for some reason.

With the exception of the 1d12+6 (Elf CON and Halfling STR), they all have a bell curve. I think I would alter the 1d12+6 to 2d6+5 (7-17). This would also take into account the -1 penalty Elves get for CON and halflings get for STR. Here's a breakdown of the distributions.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Yeah, we actually did use a similar method for several years. It wasn't geared to stay within the min/max ranges, but did use combinations of various dice with bonuses. The probabilities overwhelmingly kept minimums from being a consideration, but we did keep a max of 18 for anything, even if you were rolling 4d8 for your score (and some of them did). A separate chart for each race, though you could also do it by class (the advantage of which would be that MAD classes would face fewer hurdles at creation). I never kept any samples of the original charts we had used, but it's not hard to reconstitute this sort of thing using whatever criteria/limitations you like.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That's how characters used to be made back in the Gygax days. You rolled 6 numbers and assigned them to the ability scores in the order they came up.

From what I recall, 3d6-in-order was only the first method listed in AD&D 2E, after Gygax was no longer in charge. Gygaxian editions suggested 4d6-drop-low-and-arrange-to-taste.

Gygax wasn't a fan of 3d6-in-order, since it tended to create characters who were prone to dying immediately. There was definitely a point where he assumed that every PC would have at least two scores that were 15-or-greater.

 

[Greenfield]

Originally you could trade points, at a 2 for 1 rate, to raise a needed score.

An alternate system I've toyed with was 3 D6 straight for all scores, plus 3 D6 of bonus points to spread among them.

4d6 and drop one averages 12.5 points per roll, or about the same as a 28 point build using the 3.5 point buy system.

3D6 averages 10.5 per roll. Splitting another 10.5 among six scores brings them up to an average of 12.25 per roll. So on average this is .25 per stat poorer than the four dice method, but the ability to fine tune some numbers makes up for it, I think.

I've heard arguments for and against random roll v point buy. The argument in favor of point buy is that all PCs are created equal. The unspoken argument is that it's a min-maxers dream.

The argument, in the same vein, in favor of dice is that all PCs start out equal, in terms of dice rolled, and that in life we may all be equal in the eyes of the law, it's obvious that some people rolled better than others. The unspoken argument is that some people can and will keep rolling "randomly" until they get what they want.

I used to see kids come into the game club with PCs that were all 17s and 18s. They had a PC with simple BASIC on i, and wrote a program to "randomly" roll character stats until they met certain minimums, or to just remember the highest set of stats the digital dice had produced. I never let those characters in, but I appreciated the effort the players had gone to to warn me about who the trouble makers were going to be.

At my game table we use the point buy, but if someone wants to dice for it they're free to. Once. In front of witnesses. And they'll play what they roll.

That last part is absolutely unenforceable, of course. You can't forbid someone from retiring a character and running up a new one. But the point is made: You don't get to roll, and then switch to point buy if you roll poorly.

The complaint I used to hear in super hero games that included both options was that the point buy produced an average statted super hero. "That mean half of the opponents have better numbers than I do..." (Don't know an emoji for a pouty face. sad. ) For whatever reason, super hero games tended to bring out the power gamer in people.

 

[mach1.9pants]

From what I recall, 3d6-in-order was only the first method listed in AD&D 2E, after Gygax was no longer in charge. Gygaxian editions suggested 4d6-drop-low-and-arrange-to-taste.

Gygax wasn't a fan of 3d6-in-order, since it tended to create characters who were prone to dying immediately. There was definitely a point where he assumed that every PC would have at least two scores that were 15-or-greater.

Not quite, EGG started with 3d6 in order, ruled by the Referee

DETERMINATION OF ABILITIES:

Prior to the character selection by players it is necessary for the referee to roll three six-sided dice in order to rate each as to various abilities, and thus aid them in selecting a role

By AD&D he'd moved on to 4d6 drop lowest, along with the other methods using multiple 3d6 rolls, none are suggested as default. Then UA had the crazy 9d6, 8d6, etc arranged by class drop lowest and always get class minimum method!

The three 'basic' sets, I'm pretty sure, were all 3d6 in order

Second Edition, after Gary had left, was 3d6 in order by default and then others listed as optional.

 

[Lanefan]

Instead of using the method in the OP, what we've done forever is roll the stats as normal (so, all end up as 3-18) then use a chart we have that takes your roll and changes it to the same relative position on the bell curve for the race/stat you need.

So, if you roll 11 (i.e. about "halfway" in the 3-18 range) for Con but you're a Dwarf, that 11 gets bumped up to 15 (which is "halfway" in the 11-19 range). But if you're an Elf and you put an 18 into Str it'll get dropped to a 17; a 17 would go down to 16, and so on down to about 11 below which the stat wouldn't change e.g. if you put an 9 on Elf Str it'd stay a 9).

It's one of those things that's way more complicated to explain than to actually do.

The ranges we use, and the charts, are here...

http://www.friendsofgravity.com/gam...st-blue-book-in-html/decbluebook2.html#ranges

...if anyone's interested.

Lanefan