The Archivist;- from where else can he/she learn new spells?

[Dwimmerlied]

The archivist looks like an awesome concept, but I'd be interested to know from where they can gain their new spells?

Heroes of Horror

Unlike a cleric, an archivist does not receive his daily spell complement from whatever deity or cosmic force he worships. Rather, he must seek out and collect new spells such as a wizard does, but from such esoteric sources such as holy tablets, ancient steles or other magical scriptures.

This is included in the mechanics section, though in reality this seems to translate as "from scrolls", because there doesn't seem to be any other RAW source of divine spells in written form. With Wizards, upon which Archivist mechanic is based, there is at least reason to believe that arcane spells are commonly (if not exclusively) in written form, so Wizards learn by using arcane libraries.

But there are no formula for divine spells, and they are prayed for. Has anyone else implemented these alternate sources and/or have any advice regarding them?

 

[Ahnehnois]

But there are no formula for divine spells, and they are prayed for.

While prayer must be an element, clearly divine spells have some formulaic aspect because there are divine scrolls.

I'm guessing cleric scrolls are where archivists learn a lot of their spells. Beyond that, I do think there's an unexplored niche. I would think that the archivist is intended to work off of quasi-Lovecraftian tomes of knowledge; but I see no clear distinction between arcane and divine knowledge in this arena.

When I had a PC archivist, he mostly was doing his own research; sort of Frankenstein-y experiments with the nature of life and death.

 

[Kinak]

Frankly, the suggestion in the book sounds perfect.

If I had an archivist in game, I'd stretch to include different sources of spells: prayer books, crumbling tablets, memories trapped in amber, divine servants that have been bound by magic for aeons, and so forth.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

The purely mechanical application of this is learning from scribed scrolls. This gets really useful when you get your hands on Druid scrolls.

However, there roleplaying application of a DM having an Archivist exploring an ancient tomb and finding a spell on an old stone tablet, or pulling parchment out of a jar, etc, it what the flavor of the Archivist is designed for. [MENTION=6694112]Kinak[/MENTION]'s ideas are great, this gives the DM a lot to work with.

 

[KerlanRayne]

If a wizard can have a spellbook in alternative form then so can an archivist. All of those unusual forms it talks about in the book are just alternative prayerbooks from other archivists.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

An Archivist can scribe any divine spell into his prayerbook so long as it comes from a scroll (or other source as allowed by the DM, but scrolls are what the rules refer to as most likely source). Taking the Scribe Scroll feat comes in very handy here because it's possible to create a scroll with someone else providing the spell. Or the Archivist can get almost any divine spell from a level 12+ warlock thanks to a warlock's Imbue Item. An artificer's scroll wouldn't work, however, because it's understood that items an archivist makes are neither arcane nor divine, so an archivist can't scribe the scroll.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

Excellent advice, thanks to everyone that replied. I absolutely agree that having alternate sources for learning divine spells than from scrolls is an excellent hook and device, and I've been planning to use some (and I'll likely suplement my initial ideas with whats been posted here ).

Upon further investigation, according to the SRD, divine magical writings exist in exactly the same way that arcane ones do, and the rules to handle them are the same. But what is their purpose (other than for the writing of scrolls)? If they serve as instruction, then presumably every temple or holy place that maintains clerics has every single divine spell recorded, because a cleric has access to every spell on the cleric list that they are capable of casting. If this isn't the case, why are cleric (or druid) spells written down at all?

 

[radja]

clerics may have access to each and every spell... but that does not mean they have the knowledge of its existence. A god of air may grant its waterbreathing clerics (sea-elves maybe?) an air-breathing spell, but a dry land cleric may not even know of the existence of this spell, if only because it isn't of much use to him.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

First thing I think of is Domain spells, being Divine, are not accessible to all Clerics. It would be practical for Clerics to share domain spells on scrolls.

Secondly, since casters have a limit of spells per day, having scrolls on hand means having a backup supply of magic when your out for the day. Practical reason for Clerics, Druids, etc to scribe scrolls.

Thirdly, There are spells to prepare daily (Cure Moderate Wounds) and there are spells to have on hand for that once-in-a-blue-moon situation (Gentle Repose), it makes sense to not prepare the unlikely spells, but instead to have a scroll on hand if needed.

Fourthly, Some spells have gold and/or xp costs. The one who writes a scroll pays for the cost. This means someone might be more willing to take the money or xp hit for somebody else to cast at their convenience. I can imagine a scenario where a temple devoted to healing and returning the lost from the dead might have Raise Dead scribed into the wall next to the healing altar for the priest on duty to use. The material cost had already been paid from the temple treasury by the Clerical preparer earlier. Or a Gate spell, with it's xp cost, is prepared by the High Priest and available in case of emergency to be used by any temple Clerics capable of it's use. etc.

Fifthly (and in my opinion, most interesting roleplay application), a Divine caster can use a scroll of a spell at a higher level than they can cast, with skill checks, etc. I'd imagine a temple or grove, training new acolytes, using scrolls of higher level magic as part of the education. This is where "Spells written on the walls as instruction" makes sense to me. This is where the young students can pour over the mystical writings for hours, dreaming of the day they can unlock that level of Divine power.

...there are lots of reasons for casters who have full access to a spell list to still want to make scrolls. Plus to keep the Archivists happy.

 

[KerlanRayne]

One reason for the holy writings to exist is that giving divine casters immediate access to every spell in every supplement may seem extreme to some people. Some play that anything beyond core must be discovered in some way. They may also make some spells more rare than others. That means the only way to discover these spells is from other casters or from discovered writings. They could be from a church off the beaten path or an ancient tomb.