D&D 5E The Balancing Act - Races, Dark Vision and Other Items I would like feedback on

[guachi]

If you want to see what WOTC's values for race abilities are, you can search for the work someone did a few years ago.

Darkvision, tools, and languages all ended up with a cost of zero.

Each ability point is 2 points (because that was the arbitrary starting point)

Feat at level one is 6 points.

Skill is 2 points.

No need to reinvent the wheel here. There was some iteration done after the Guide to Monsters came out and some scores for some things changed. But the above stayed the same. If you think Dragonborn breath weapon is overvalued you can always give it a value you do think is appropriate and then adjust it.

The Breath Weapon was given a value of six points. I don't disagree with the analysis that derived the cost. I disagree that it should even cost that much. Give them another +1 somewhere and that makes the breath weapon 4 points, for example.

 

[DeJoker]

OK. Is Low Light Vision the same as it was in 3.5? If so, that on its own may be about equal.
What is Dark Sight?

Yes Low Light Vision is as outline in 3.5E and earlier but I do not see it as being the equivalent of Dark Vision since Dark Vision does a much a more.

Dark Sight is... (okay my bad I meant Blind Sight I keep getting that verbiage mixed up) part of 5e

Blind Sight (per 5e) : A creature with Blind Sight can perceive its surroundings without relying on sight, within a specific radius. Creatures without eyes, such as oozes, and creatures with echolocation or heightened senses, such as bats and true dragons, have this sense. (As do humanoids trained in using their other senses)

A more thorough definition is as follows :

Blind Sight is using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation. A creature with Blind Sight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, Darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text. The creature still needs to make a Perception check to notice creatures within range of their Blind Sight ability and Stealth still affects it normally. Unless noted otherwise, Blind Sight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of Blind Sight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature’s description. If a creature must trigger its Blind Sight ability, the creature gains the benefits of Blind Sight only during its turn once it has been activated.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

What does Darkvision do that you consider a lot more?

As it stands, I'd say either would be a replacement for darkvision, but I'd consider getting both a definite power boost over darkvision.

 

[DeJoker]

Okay I am not understanding the purpose of this. Are you saying some of the values I have assigned to things (aka 1 or 2 Benefits) is off some how. As to reinventing the wheel, if one did not know that wheel had been invented one has no other option than to reinvent it. However form what it sounds like that wheel is a lot different than the wheel I have now.

Lastly why would I need to search for something that sounds like it is extremely different than what I implemented unless you think my numbers are off somehow. If so can you provide a link to this information you are referencing so I can see if it is a case of apples vs apples which can be compared or if it is what it sounds like apples vs oranges which cannot be compared.


As for Dragon Breath my issue with it was that I felt it had been improperly implemented and so I re-implemented it by basing it off of Cantrips rather than building a brand new power (as was done) that some players feel is way under powered and when you compare them to Cantrips I have to agree thus the reason I chose to tweak my version of Dragon Breath and build using Cantrips.

If you want to see what WOTC's values for race abilities are, you can search for the work someone did a few years ago.

Darkvision, tools, and languages all ended up with a cost of zero.

Each ability point is 2 points (because that was the arbitrary starting point)

Feat at level one is 6 points.

Skill is 2 points.

No need to reinvent the wheel here. There was some iteration done after the Guide to Monsters came out and some scores for some things changed. But the above stayed the same. If you think Dragonborn breath weapon is overvalued you can always give it a value you do think is appropriate and then adjust it.

The Breath Weapon was given a value of six points. I don't disagree with the analysis that derived the cost. I disagree that it should even cost that much. Give them another +1 somewhere and that makes the breath weapon 4 points, for example.

 

[DeJoker]

What does Darkvision do that you consider a lot more?

As it stands, I'd say either would be a replacement for darkvision, but I'd consider getting both a definite power boost over darkvision.

Okay to answer the first part :

Low Light Vision lets you see better in low light but still requires a light source to see -- in total darkness you are just as blind as a normally sighted human would be

Dark Vision lets you see better in low light AND lets you see in total darkness absent of any light source

I think the basic definitions thus sort of sum up the difference and being able to see in total darkness is much more (aka my definition of the difference) than just being able to see better in low light conditions.

Next I am, as I stated in my first post, considering giving them both a power boost over Dark Vision -- for I had stated that I was doing the following

Dark Vision >>> is being replaced by >>> Both Low Light Vision and Blind Sight 10 ft (again not just one of them but both of them are being used to replace Dark Vision)

 

[Mistwell]

Dark VisionDark Vision is something that I completely (as I have always) disagree with as a common sense. For IMHO it destroys the basic atmosphere -- why would any of those races use "torches" or other sources of light underground as they would have no need

Because they don't want disadvantage on their perception checks, which is what you get when you use only darkvision to see in darkness?
Because they want to see beyond 60', which is what you'd get when you use only darkvision to see in darkness?
Because you want to see colors as opposed to just shades of gray, which is what you get when you try to use darkvision only to see in darkness?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Okay to answer the first part :

Low Light Vision lets you see better in low light but still requires a light source to see -- in total darkness you are just as blind as a normally sighted human would be

Dark Vision lets you see better in low light AND lets you see in total darkness absent of any light source

Darkvision is usually limited to 60ft. Low-light vision lets you see as far as you want in dim environmental conditions like forests and starry nights. Even underground, low-light vision and a lantern or torch can see further than a creature with darkvision and the light source (with the major disadvantage of needing a light source in the first place.)

I'd say they're pretty even in general, but the tiebreaker is going to be your campaign's setting I would guess. In OotA or similar underdark/dungeon themed adventure, Darkvision is going to be better. In a more overland adventure such as SKT or ToA, Low-light will probably win out.

Blind Sight lets you see through most visual illusions including Invisibility, though magical darkness, and through smoke and fog effects as well. You can get hit with a blindness spell or fight a medusa in melee without suffering disadvantage.

I think the basic definitions thus sort of sum up the difference and being able to see in total darkness is much more (aka my definition of the difference) than just being able to see better in low light conditions.

Its your campaign: you will determine which will be most useful.

Dark Vision >>> is being replaced by >>> Both Low Light Vision and Blind Sight 10 ft (again not just one of them but both of them are being used to replace Dark Vision)

Yep. I gave you my opinion that picking one rather than both would balance instead.

 

[DeJoker]

Yep. I gave you my opinion that picking one rather than both would balance instead.

Oh my bad, went back and reread that and realized I had miss read it I thought you said use either but which ever one you do you should give it a power boost to make it equivalent to Dark Vision which is not what you said at all. *Sigh* nvm

Oh and thanks for the feed back on that

 

[Scott Steven Bell]

Our last session I had dust particles all in the air limiting the darkvision range to 30'. It worked really well and the players were much more nervous.

 

[DeJoker]

Values have been edited due to updates in the balance of various abilities