Because there are better ways to do it. And if there are not, there can be invented better ways. Or discovered better ways. If there is progress or evolution to be made, if there can be progress or evolution, if this is a possibility do it. If there is no such thing you wont be looking for it first place. You would be happy and covered with what you have. But if you start looking around this means that there are things to be found.
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The basic tenet of the Wizard: More
- Thread starter Edena_of_Neith
- Start date
Because there are better ways to do it. And if there are not, there can be invented better ways. Or discovered better ways. If there is progress or evolution to be made, if there can be progress or evolution, if this is a possibility do it. If there is no such thing you wont be looking for it first place. You would be happy and covered with what you have. But if you start looking around this means that there are things to be found.
thecasualoblivion
First Post
D&D has been used for multiple modes of play outside of its designed parameters thanks to its popularity and place in the RPG community. Thanks to the larger number of players and name brand of D&D, its often easier to put together a game where you use D&D against what its designed to do than it is to play a different RPG that does what you want. At its core though, and in its design, D&D is a down the middle game for the masses.
AD&D was in practice a very rules-light game. There were books filled with fiddly and arcane rules, but these were easily ignored or houseruled in practice. The amount of core rules the game contained that couldn't be ignored or changed was actually pretty small. This core of the game was fairly independant of the fiddly rules for various things and playstyles that the game itself possessed, and existed outside of custom rules created to make D&D do things it wasn't designed for. The end result is that the core game didn't suffer for this versatility.
As far as D&D being used to play styles that it wasn't designed for, 3E embraced this, and tried to be flexible and gave nods to a vast variety of playstyles. In my opinion, trying to be flexible and accomodating varying playstyles weakened the center of the game and made it a weaker game in terms of D&D's core audience. The combination of 3E's attempt at being able to do anything combined with the OGL movement also had a very negative effect on games that were not D&D or based on the d20 mechanic.
4E returned D&D to its roots and focused on its core audience, concentrating on doing the core D&D experience as well as it can be done while downplaying the ability of the game to be used outside of its core focus. In my opinion, this is a good thing, as people who want to play beer and popcorn, action/adventure, kill the monsters and take their stuff D&D get a game better focused on doing that, while non-D&D(and particularly non-d20) games that offer something different don't have to compete with D&D trying to achieve the same thing only not as well but having a bigger brand name.
Some people who really liked the versatility and customizability of 3E D&D are losing out, but things change and you have to deal with it.
AD&D was in practice a very rules-light game. There were books filled with fiddly and arcane rules, but these were easily ignored or houseruled in practice. The amount of core rules the game contained that couldn't be ignored or changed was actually pretty small. This core of the game was fairly independant of the fiddly rules for various things and playstyles that the game itself possessed, and existed outside of custom rules created to make D&D do things it wasn't designed for. The end result is that the core game didn't suffer for this versatility.
As far as D&D being used to play styles that it wasn't designed for, 3E embraced this, and tried to be flexible and gave nods to a vast variety of playstyles. In my opinion, trying to be flexible and accomodating varying playstyles weakened the center of the game and made it a weaker game in terms of D&D's core audience. The combination of 3E's attempt at being able to do anything combined with the OGL movement also had a very negative effect on games that were not D&D or based on the d20 mechanic.
4E returned D&D to its roots and focused on its core audience, concentrating on doing the core D&D experience as well as it can be done while downplaying the ability of the game to be used outside of its core focus. In my opinion, this is a good thing, as people who want to play beer and popcorn, action/adventure, kill the monsters and take their stuff D&D get a game better focused on doing that, while non-D&D(and particularly non-d20) games that offer something different don't have to compete with D&D trying to achieve the same thing only not as well but having a bigger brand name.
Some people who really liked the versatility and customizability of 3E D&D are losing out, but things change and you have to deal with it.
I often wonder who these people are (or were), the screaming masses that that rose up in unison, demanding the game become 4E. That's not to say I have never played with a person that wanted fighters to be as complex as mages or that wanted to eliminate the 1st-level paradigm or that wanted to convert role-playing situations into dice fests, but they were hardly the majority of gamers I have met and played with over 20 years and half a dozen states. I wonder who the people were, I guess, that wanted D&D to become something... different than it has always been.
ExploderWizard
Hero
See thecausedoblivion's post.
"I am not economically viable." - William Foster
Anyways...
I really don't understand why people hated the Vancian system. I LOVED IT! That was the fun of playing the wizard. You start out as this weakling who will probably fall unconscious and maybe die a few times in the start but as you grow more experienced you become this powerful wizard who throws around a bunch of kickass spells. That was the point. That's what makes the wizard a fun class to play.
4e wizard...lame. Still my favorite class but the 4e wizard is like a lazy wizard. 4e wizards have no ambition. They are just content with what they have, and want only a little more...and end there. He/she starts out as 1st level as this person with decent skills and at the end he/she only learns a few more spells but deals only a little more damage, a little larger area of effect, and so on. Then again, that's the same for all the other 4e classes as well. (Note: I play 4e and enjoy it. Don't bash me.)
Anyways...
I really don't understand why people hated the Vancian system. I LOVED IT! That was the fun of playing the wizard. You start out as this weakling who will probably fall unconscious and maybe die a few times in the start but as you grow more experienced you become this powerful wizard who throws around a bunch of kickass spells. That was the point. That's what makes the wizard a fun class to play.
4e wizard...lame. Still my favorite class but the 4e wizard is like a lazy wizard. 4e wizards have no ambition. They are just content with what they have, and want only a little more...and end there. He/she starts out as 1st level as this person with decent skills and at the end he/she only learns a few more spells but deals only a little more damage, a little larger area of effect, and so on. Then again, that's the same for all the other 4e classes as well. (Note: I play 4e and enjoy it. Don't bash me.)
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The wizard in our 4e campaign has plenty of ambition... he wants power so he can rescue his kidnapped sister from air-pirates, and then sleep with her.
He's got issues, but he's not lazy!
thecasualoblivion
First Post
A small aside on this:
A Wizard wields the greatest amount of power in 4E, in short bursts. We are currently playing through Demon Queen's Enclave with a 16th level party, which includes a Wizard. I an definitively say that the most powerful encounter ability anyone in the party has is the Wizard's Prismatic Burst(though the Fighter's Come and Get It comes close). The Daily powers Stinking Cloud, Ice Storm, and Blast of Cold are similarly dominating, and nothing the other characters have can compare(except, again the Fighter, but that is more a twink issue thanks to dealing 1d12+21 damage on a standard hit, 1d12+33 against a marked creature with power attack, and dealing +7d12 damage on a crit, combined with most of his powers being close bursts or multiple hits).
ExploderWizard
Hero
The wizard in our 4e campaign has plenty of ambition... he wants power so he can rescue his kidnapped sister from air-pirates, and then sleep with her.
He's got issues, but he's not lazy!
Who is this power hungry wizard? Joe Dirt?
