The best value in gaming is gone...

[Cassander]

I want Dungeon. I don't care about Dragon. I don't care about some virtual tabletop or web-enhancements that I can get free now anyway. I want 900+ pages per year of ADVENTURES.

With the DI, that (assuming they keep it at the same level of content) will cost $120. With the magazine format, it only cost $40. And now I don't even have a hard copy... I'll have to pay a lot more to print it out!

The magazine is the best format in gaming. It is far, far cheaper than books. Buying adventures singly or as part of Pathfinder/Gamemastery will be at least as much as the DI costs.

And no one is making Dungeon alternatives. All I've seen (ala Kobold Quarterly) is Dragon alternatives. And Pathfinder is just adventure path. I want unconnected adventures where one can be used without spoiling the others, in case you want to DM in one and play in another. And I want variety. I want a magazine like back in the good old days before the Paizo boys club where the editors didn't write half the adventures. I want the slush pile... I want the days where Dungeon published at least one adventure a month from a new author, with many of the others from up-and-comers. I remember when Chris Perkins was just some guy who wrote adventures and submitted them to Dungeon, and still had at least half rejected! Where will the new game designers come from now?

I guess there's still Dungeon in the DI, but it's not print and it costs $120 a year... might as well buy print modules for that. The best value in gaming is gone.

Of course, this is the third time Dungeon has been killed... the first was when TSR went bankrupt. It came back from that thanks to WotC. The next time was when Polyhedron killed Dungeon... I stopped subscribing when I got an issue with only a single adventure in it... it was a terrible value just like with the DI now... I resubscribed later when the format changed back to all adventures. And now it's died again, with only an overpriced online-only version to replace it.

I'm not feeling very charitable towards 4e right now. My hope is that the DI will flop and Wizards will go back to making the magazines again and Dungeon will be back, ressurected for the third time. Not likely, though. They could make money... even if they doubled the price of Dungeon, it'd still be a better value than DI or Pathfinder.. surely they could make enough money then?

 

[Awakened]

I understand what you mean.
Very much so, in fact.
Too much is changing too quickly. I was the happiest person when I heard about 3e coming, but for some reason, this time around- especially with the deaths of the magazines- I can't help but feel that my favorite game is falling apart.
Well, I guess I can wait for the 4e reviews

 

[Maggan]

They could make money... even if they doubled the price of Dungeon, it'd still be a better value than DI or Pathfinder.. surely they could make enough money then?

It depens on how many of the 13000 people who bought Dungeon would drop it with a price hike.

Simultaneosly complaining that the DI is too expensive at 10 dollars a month, and suggesting they hike the print mag Dungeon price to 16 dollars a month, seems counter intuitive to me.

/M

 

[jasin]

And no one is making Dungeon alternatives. All I've seen (ala Kobold Quarterly) is Dragon alternatives. And Pathfinder is just adventure path. I want unconnected adventures where one can be used without spoiling the others, in case you want to DM in one and play in another.

http://paizo.com/gameMastery/modules

And I want variety. I want a magazine like back in the good old days before the Paizo boys club where the editors didn't write half the adventures. I want the slush pile... I want the days where Dungeon published at least one adventure a month from a new author, with many of the others from up-and-comers. I remember when Chris Perkins was just some guy who wrote adventures and submitted them to Dungeon, and still had at least half rejected! Where will the new game designers come from now?

James Jacobs has stated that one of his goals for Pathfinder is to accept submissions and provide opportunity for new talent.

 

[Festivus]

Sorry, I was sleeping. Did they set a price for this Digitial Initiative stuff? I was thinking it was going to be $10 a month last night, but that was just a guess.

 

[Bagpuss]

The press pack at Gencon says $9.95 a month.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Maybe online is the futrue of a lot of gaming realted stuff, but I jsut plain do not like it. 10:00 a month for the digital initiative is a lot, and I will definitely not be paying it, no matter how good it is. I like print and things I can hold in my hands, and not go blind tryingto read on a computer sc reen.

Maybe I am old-fashioned, but that is jsut how it is.

Looing ahead to the next year or so, I see my gaming expenditures going way way down. No Dungeon, no semi-monthly complete XXXX, just 4E (core books at least) ((and maybe more)
Any most likely if the majority of non-core books are FR, I will not be getting those.

And I really have a problem with them making FR the first of the campaign settings released. I mean FR has been done to death in what, 3 editions now? Waht we really need is a new caompaign setting, or at least jsut generic stuff the first year so that we can learn the rules withoutthe designers arguing over how to represten Elminster in yet another overpowered version. Or even worse the whole chosen bunch of retards. I mean, seriously.

 

[KingCrab]

I'm also a dungeon magazine subscriber with no interest in Dragon magazine. I think I'm going to have to just stay close to paizo and their products and make the best of things, but the whole best value thing of dungeon magazine is done.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I want Dungeon. I don't care about Dragon. I don't care about some virtual tabletop or web-enhancements that I can get free now anyway. I want 900+ pages per year of ADVENTURES.

With the DI, that (assuming they keep it at the same level of content) will cost $120. With the magazine format, it only cost $40. And now I don't even have a hard copy... I'll have to pay a lot more to print it out!

I hear you, brother. I'm not even a subscriber to Dungeon (I like writing my own - it's half the fun for me), so D&D Insider is even less of a value. But I want the gaming table.

If WotC is smart they'll leave D&D Insider at $9.95/mo, but offer any one of the modules (Dragon, Dungeon and Table) for $3.99/mo. I can justify the lower price, but it cost structure I suggest also provides a discount to people for getting the whole package.

And the Dungeon/Dragon articles and adventures neeeeeed to be PDF to download and print. For one thing, I don't want to lose access to content bought if I cancel my subscription. For another, I know I wouldn't print everything, but some some things (adventures in particular) need to be printed out for the game table.

It would also be cool if several months after subscribers get content, everyone else could buy articles and adventures a la carte for like $1.99 or something ...

I think that would make the most people the most happy, and also maximize revenue for WotC. People who buy one adventure every six months were never going to subscribe to D&D insider anyway, so picking up $2 here and there would be "free money" from WotC's point of view ....

 

[Cassander]

It depens on how many of the 13000 people who bought Dungeon would drop it with a price hike.

Simultaneosly complaining that the DI is too expensive at 10 dollars a month, and suggesting they hike the print mag Dungeon price to 16 dollars a month, seems counter intuitive to me.

/M

The price of Dungeon to a subscriber is $3.33 a month. So $6.66 for a magazine is better than $10 for online content. It'd be a better value in that sense ($80/year rather than $120/year), but yeah, I'd much prefer the old price point of $40 a year. And this isn't even taking into account the cost of printing the digital Dungeon in color like in the current magazine.