The Book of Exalted Deeds - It's Here! (merged - full ToC posted)

[Ferret]

The Musteval are Tiny celestials (guardinals) that are based off of ferrets. "They often serve as spies, and aid humanoid heros by giving them information about powerful evil foes." They have a lot of at-will spell like abilities, including some disguise spells they use to conceal their unusual appearance.

The poisons, called ravages, only work against evil creatures and work the exact same way other poisons do, by dealing ability damage. Some of them are quite deadly. The ravages are as follows: Golden ice, celestial lightsblood, jade water, purified couatl venom, and unicorn blood.

Cheers

 

[Endur]

I very much like the idea of a vow of poverty. I'm just a wee bit worried that it is out of balance. Currently, I can only see playing two character classes with a vow of poverty, Monk and Sorceror. And those two character classes don't lose anything.

Other character classes, Fighter, Paladin, etc. lose a ton if they take the vow of poverty. Would you want to play a Paladin who could only wield a quarter staff and couldn't wear armor and couldn't even buy armor for his steed?

I would have preferred half a dozen different vow versions. A version for monks, a version for sorcerors, a version for Paladins, etc.

So that a Paladin could have armor and a horse even though he takes a Vow of Charity and gives all excess wealth to a religious cause.

The interesting thing about the Vow of Poverty is that it thematically hearkens back to the 1st edition paladin, who was restricted in terms of what possessions he could own. The Vow of Poverty is much, much harsher than the 1e paladin's restrictions, however.

 

[jasamcarl]

I have to sit down and run the numbers, but I think the special abilities are worth about the same amount in gold that a non-poor Monk would have at the same level.

If that is true and I'm not sure, then the extra Exalted feats are what makes all the difference. You are basically getting ten extra feats for free.

Now, I haven't seen this, but how are they getting something for free? They are giving up the use of all magic items for 10 extra feats.

And while a sorcerer might not give up as much in taking a Vow of Poverty, they aren't really gaining much either if my reading of the feat list gives any accurate impression. Martial exalted feats will not see much use by a dedicated spellcaster...

 

[BOZ]

Cheers

ferrets, representin', yo!

 

[Gez]

Other character classes, Fighter, Paladin, etc. lose a ton if they take the vow of poverty.

Less sure for Paladins. Especially those that I use (from Monte's Book of Hallowed Might), as they get a free sacred sword, just like they get a free sacred mount. Granted, it's not much, but with horse and weapon, they have their primary tools. (They'll lack armor, though, but this may be made up for.)

 

[Joshua Randall]

Also note that you do not have to take Vow of Poverty at character creation. You can take it at a later level and get the lower-level benefits retroactively (except the 1st level bonus exalted feat, per the description). So you could create a character with normal equipment at the lower levels when it's more essential to survival, and then take a Vow of Poverty at mid levels when you are more robust.

I am intrigued by the idea of a staff-wielding paladin with no material possessions. He may look innocuous, but if you mess with him he'll smite you silly with his walking stick, or call his mount to trample you. Booyah!

 

[Mouseferatu]

Would you want to play a Paladin who could only wield a quarter staff and couldn't wear armor and couldn't even buy armor for his steed?

Yes.

One of the very first characters I ever created, playing around with the character creator that came with the PHB, was a paladin who lived as a monk (in the historical, Western European religious sense, like Brother Cadfael, not in the martial artist sense). He still owned his old armor and sword from his warrior days, but he only ever carried/used/wore a quarterstaff and leather armor beneath his robes. And I didn't even want to give him the armor, but I was trying to balance between character concept and character playability.

When I read the Vow of Poverty feat, my very first thought was "Cool! Now I can actually play Brother Darryn!

 

[Coik]

I honestly don't know what WotC hopes to accomplish with these alignment books. The system is so poorly defined as to be almost useless, and in essence is really just an archaic holdover from previous editions of the game, which I have to presume was kept mostly so they wouldn't have to bother with retooling the magic system. If nothing else, Monte Cook's excellent Arcana Unearthed proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the system is no longer necessary.

I mean, honestly, half the things they define as quote unquote "good" or "evil" don't pass their own test for it. Look at animate dead, one of the classic "evil" spells. According to their own definition, evil is "hurting, oppressing, and killing others" (PHB p. 104). How does animate dead do any of those? You obviously don't kill the body. There's nothing to hurt. And you can't oppress the spirit, because as we know from speak with dead it departs as soon as the body dies. So, in essence, the quintessential "evil" spell isn't even evil by the games' own standards!

Hopefully, when 4e comes along, this grevious error will finally be corrected.

 

[Gez]

Well, it's been often theorized that souls are harmed when animating undead from their former body, maybe entrapped or used as fuel to create the negative energy that powers the undead.

After all, even true resurrection can't work on someone who's been turned into an undead, as long as said undead hasn't been destroyed. (Lesser spells can't even work on destroyed undead, as the soul has been too tainted with negative energy, just like for people killed by death effects.)

But yes, the alignment system is clunky. They could easily give it up, at least for mortals (retaining it for outsiders would be OK IMHO).

 

[Gez]

When I read the Vow of Poverty feat, my very first thought was "Cool! Now I can actually play Brother Darryn!

I'm sure this was one of the top priority of Brother Darrin.