D&D 5E The Case for a Magic Item Shop?

[SkidAce]

For me? Absolutely yes. If it isn't going to happen, I would never string the player along. In some campaigns it might be possible. Note, possible doesn't mean easy and doesn't guarantee success, but, if it is possible, then there is a chance of success.

Gaming story:

I played a 2e game as a magic user, years ago. At chargen I created a scholarly wizard and talked with the DM and got approval from him that I would be able to create my own spells using the Complete Wizard 2e book. Now, this is a pretty involved process - you need to find a location, need to buy a library to stock that location and need to buy ingredients to create the new spell and, even when you do all that, you have about a 30% chance of success. Not great and it's expensive.

So, I went through the whole deal - got a place, got the library, got the ingredients, spent several levels building this and a butt load of time. So, I try to create a new spell, a second level version of Unseen Servant (or maybe 3rd? I forget what level unseen servant is in AD&D) that lasted for an hour per level instead of 10 minutes per level and I think extended the range a bit. In 3e terms I was adding two feats, although, this was years before 3e, so, I was combining the two since I didn't think it was a huge deal. I think I extended the range to like 20 feet/level instead of 10. Something like that. Long time ago.

Fine, I get everything ready, go to the DM and get approval for my new spell (which wasn't a problem) and then, and only then, the DM announced that my chances were actually 3% per attempt rather than 30. IOW, I had pretty much zero chance of success and the price meant that I wasn't going to get enough tries to actually succeed. When questioned, he claimed that new spells, having a name attached to them was reserved for very powerful wizards, not my measly fifth or sixth level magic user.

So, basically, in one line, he nerfed the entire point of my character. Had I known from the outset that I would have had virtually no chance of success, I would have played a different character. I was, to say the least, somewhat put out.

From that point onwards, I've always been very frank and honest with players about their chances of success for doing something during chargen. It saves a lot of pissed off players in the end.

I do agree with this example. The situation should never have gone down that way.

 

[rkwoodard]

After going back and forth on this issue, and playing through versions/settings that go from one extreme to another, I have come to the conclusion that logically speaking there must be ways to get magic items during downtime. My reasoning can be explained ironically enough with Magic the Gathering and MMORPGs.

When M:TG came out in the 90s it was a big hit and there were some overly powerful very rare cards. It was impossible to obtain them without being super (unbelievably) lucky in buying booster packs. Almost immediately we saw secondary trading occur between players and comic shops started selling singles very early. In Middle Tennessee it was less than a year before shops dedicated a full class display case for singles.
MMORPGs: I have never played and don't know exactly how it works, but I know that people buy and sell their loot to each other over ebay and stuff. Imaginary Magic Items.

I doubt in most cases there are "Magic Marts" but if there is a thriving need for Adventurers, there is going to be a guild, or a black market or something to facilitate trading for items.

Of course, each DM should tailor the specifics. I like using the concept of Merchant Adventure Guilds (like the ones that really existed) but are revamped to include a place to trade stories, lore, and swap/trade spells, magic, and other "unusual" treasure. This does not work for all set-ups but it does work for most of my worlds.

RK

 

[mcbobbo]

This is futile, I realize, but to bring some facts back to this conversation:

1) I can find no affirmative statement in this thread that OP discussed the matter with his or her DM.
2) Even if magic shops were available, there's significant reason to doubt that the item necessary...
a) exists anywhere in the 5e rules,
b) would have been available in said shop, and
c) would have been priced at something the PC felt was fair.

So in short we seem to be debating whether a player who suffers in silence should have access to a magic shop that may or may not have solved the problem they did not state they had.

If I'm incorrect about any of this, please do share.

As for the notion that 'a DM with unhappy players has failed', I'd have to qualify that a bit. 'A DM who IGNORES unhappy players has failed.' So long as you have noticed it, addressed it, and behaved generally like an adult, there's no room for accusations of 'failure' here. A DM's responsibility to maintain emotional states is pretty limited, I'd say. But conducting the table is definitely in scope. We can discuss where that line is drawn, but it's likely to vary a lot from DM to DM.

Quick edit to add: Not ignoring doesn't mean giving in to unreasonable demands, either. 'No' could well be the answer, as discussions typically go...

 

[Hussar]

No. For a number of reasons:

I'm running the Starter Set as an Adventurer's League adventure. Which means that in order to follow the rules, I cannot hand out any magic items that are not listed in the adventure ever. I've already explained this to the player in question who keeps asking for it anyway.

;snip.

Ahh, well, at that point, yup, I'm with you 100% here. You've been up front and open and the player is being a jerk. Fair enough.

This is futile, I realize, but to bring some facts back to this conversation:

1) I can find no affirmative statement in this thread that OP discussed the matter with his or her DM.

True

2) Even if magic shops were available, there's significant reason to doubt that the item necessary...
a) exists anywhere in the 5e rules,

Goggles of the night exist in the 5e basic rules.

b) would have been available in said shop, and
c) would have been priced at something the PC felt was fair.

That's up for grabs. We simply do not know.

So in short we seem to be debating whether a player who suffers in silence should have access to a magic shop that may or may not have solved the problem they did not state they had.

If I'm incorrect about any of this, please do share.

As for the notion that 'a DM with unhappy players has failed', I'd have to qualify that a bit. 'A DM who IGNORES unhappy players has failed.' So long as you have noticed it, addressed it, and behaved generally like an adult, there's no room for accusations of 'failure' here. A DM's responsibility to maintain emotional states is pretty limited, I'd say. But conducting the table is definitely in scope. We can discuss where that line is drawn, but it's likely to vary a lot from DM to DM.

I'd completely agree with that qualifier. That's perfectly fair.

 

[mcbobbo]

Goggles of the night exist in the 5e basic rules.

So they do, thank you. 'Uncommon' rarity, whatever that means...

 

[MoonSong]

So they do, thank you. 'Uncommon' rarity, whatever that means...

That they aren't that hard to find. As far as permanent items go, uncommon is the easiest to find.

 

[mcbobbo]

That they aren't that hard to find. As far as permanent items go, uncommon is the easiest to find.

What page did you find that on?

 

[Tony Semana]

That they aren't that hard to find. As far as permanent items go, uncommon is the easiest to find.

This second sentence may be true in that there are no 'common' permanent items listed in any of the released sources so far. But 'easiest to find' of the permanent magic items is not the same thing as "aren't that hard to find" as a general statement of the first sentence.

Put another way; just because the second sentence is true does not make the first sentence a fact.

 

[Grainger]

I doubt in most cases there are "Magic Marts" but if there is a thriving need for Adventurers, there is going to be a guild, or a black market or something to facilitate trading for items.

That entirely depends on the economy of the campaign. I don't picture there being such an economy in Middle Earth, for example (perhaps there was, but it's not how I picture it). If magic items are expensive/rare enough that only rulers can afford them (and, for example, adventurers, if very lucky, might find long-lost swords belonging to long-dead kings), then where's the scope for a black market. To go back to one of your example, if MTG cards cost hundreds of thousands of pounds each, then there wouldn't be FLGS with cases full of them. Of course, most D&D campaigns do have magic items much more common than this, but it isn't a given.

 

[Grainger]

This second sentence may be true in that there are no 'common' permanent items listed in any of the released sources so far. But 'easiest to find' of the permanent magic items is not the same thing as "aren't that hard to find" as a general statement of the first sentence.

Put another way; just because the second sentence is true does not make the first sentence a fact.

Yes, "uncommon" is relative, depending on how ubiquitous magic items are in the campaign. In my campaign, a "common" magic item is still fairly rare. So "uncommon"? There might be a handful on the entire planet. Certainly no stock-rooms full of them, or black market supply of them worth exploiting. And if I decided that an "uncommon" item should be "rare", then it would be rare. The DMG list is for inspiration, and to set a baseline which the DM can see fit to modify or ignore to fit the flavour and balance of the setting; it's not there for the players to wave at the DM.