D&D (2024) The changes to languages are a good start

[AnotherGuy]

An awful lot of people just assume there's "sign language" and that it's somehow international, and because of the dominance of US media, they tend to assume it's ASL.

I assumed (wrongly) there is one sign language because why would we create more complexity for the deaf, but it makes sense given our species history with languages.

 

[Charlaquin]

I assumed (wrongly) there is one sign language because why would we create more complexity for the deaf, but it makes sense given our species history with languages.

“We” didn’t create sign languages for the deaf and hard of hearing, they created them for themselves. And just like spoken languages, sign languages have developed independently in many parts of the world.

A lot of hearing people (especially in America) wrongly assume that sign languages are basically just ciphers for equivalent spoken languages, but they are in fact full languages, just as nuanced and complex as spoken languages.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Alignment languages are gone, as are Thieves' and Assassins' cants. I've never had Druidic as its own thing.

Did assassins have their own in 1E? I know illusionists' spellbooks were incomprehensible to magic-users, and I can remember the hierarchy of assassins in the PHB, but I can't remember them having their own language, although it fits the logic of that era.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

“We” didn’t create sign languages for the deaf and hard of hearing, they created them for themselves. And just like spoken languages, sign languages have developed independently in many parts of the world.

A lot of hearing people (especially in America) wrongly assume that sign languages are basically just ciphers for equivalent spoken languages, but they are in fact full languages, just as nuanced and complex as spoken languages.

To elaborate on this:

American Sign Language, grammatically, is similar to Mandarin. (I know, that surprised me, too.)

It is not Signed English -- basically, just using ASL signs structured like English communication. It's basically the pidgeon version of sign language used to communicate with the hearing, who often have a hard time making the grammatical leap to true ASL. Native ASL speakers are almost all able to understand and communicate with Signed English, since they're familiar with English grammar from reading it constantly.

I started with Signed English and am slowly learning more ASL grammar as time goes on. Most of the time, when I'm communicating with deaf people I know, I do a sloppy mix of both. I think of it as little kid sign.

 

[Charlaquin]

To elaborate on this:

American Sign Language, grammatically, is similar to Mandarin. (I know, that surprised me, too.)

It is not Signed English -- basically, just using ASL signs structured like English communication. It's basically the pidgeon version of sign language used to communicate with the hearing, who often have a hard time making the grammatical leap to true ASL. Native ASL speakers are almost all able to understand and communicate with Signed English, since they're familiar with English grammar from reading it constantly.

I started with Signed English and am slowly learning more ASL grammar as time goes on. Most of the time, when I'm communicating with deaf people I know, I do a sloppy mix of both. I think of it as little kid sign.

Yup, ASL vs. SEE. I’m just beginning to study it myself because spending two years in masks that covered our mouths made me realize what a barrier to communication it must be, and I think being able to communicate is (or ought to be) a human right.

 

[Lanefan]

Did assassins have their own in 1E? I know illusionists' spellbooks were incomprehensible to magic-users, and I can remember the hierarchy of assassins in the PHB, but I can't remember them having their own language, although it fits the logic of that era.

I think they did, but my RAW memory is very fuzzy as I gave them their own anyway right from the start...then much later dropped the cants idea completely when after 20 years of DMing I had yet to see one in use in any way.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think they did, but my RAW memory is very fuzzy as I gave them their own anyway right from the start...then much later dropped the cants idea completely when after 20 years of DMing I had yet to see one in use in any way.

I run a lot of urban games in a setting where multiple thieves guilds/crime families are battling for supremacy, so it get used all the time for me, but I can easily envision a lot of campaigns where it would be completely unused.

 

[Lanefan]

I run a lot of urban games in a setting where multiple thieves guilds/crime families are battling for supremacy, so it get used all the time for me, but I can easily envision a lot of campaigns where it would be completely unused.

I certainly allow for the idea of Thieves and Assassins having things like signal systems, codes, etc., but none of them would be universal. There might be eight different signal systems in use in the same small city, each developed by and bespoke to a different guild or group, meaning that a PC's knowledge of one from somewhere will probably be useless well over 99% of the time.

And if the adventuring party want to develop their own system of signals and codes (I've seen this done at least in a rudimentary fashion) that's fine too - but it'll be unique to them.

 

[Horwath]

And if the adventuring party want to develop their own system of signals and codes (I've seen this done at least in a rudimentary fashion) that's fine too - but it'll be unique to them.

In one campaign I persuaded the DM that we can get with week of downtime "party proficiency" in simple sign language like many military uses:

few dozen meanings:
go forward, halt, return, hide, beware ambush/trap, go around, look there, X enemies ahead and similar.

 

[Yora]

I actually fail to see anything changed in the language list, other than there being a sign language of common.