D&D 5E The Charismatic Fighting "Hero" - Which Core Class does it Best?

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Stalker0]

If we do go back and consider that the archetype doesn't typically use a lot of his own magic, though, the Paladin's victory isn't complete

You could flavor a paladin smites as just “big attacks”, and never cast a spell. It’s not perfect but it gets you closer.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

2) Charisma as a mechanical asset. Its easy to say "get persuasion + charisma = win", but we are looking at what classes actually incorporate charisma into the class, as opposed to just window dressing.
[...]
So which class does it best? Which is the best representation of the archetypical "warrior hero"?

These requirements are almost mutually exclusive. The warrior hero archetype doesn't rely on magic to do their dirty work. Battle Master wins by default.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Agree with the basic premise, but I voted valor bard. The charismatic leader is rarely the best straight-up fighter in the group. He usually wins by either having great will/resolve (which favors the paladin), by being creative and cunning (which favors the bard), or by being able to inspire his companions to be better than they thought they could be (which also favors the bard).

If we change requirement 1) in the OP to "capable second-tier combatant" or words to that effect, the Paladin hits two out of three, the Bard three out of three, and the Fighter 0 - though, you could always downplay the Pally or Fighter's combat ability by under-investing in STR/DEX/CON and eschewing combat-related feats.

 

[Psyzhran2357]

These requirements are almost mutually exclusive. The warrior hero archetype doesn't rely on magic to do their dirty work. Battle Master wins by default.

Except that the OP was specifically looking for charismatic heroes, and unless somebody rolled 14-18 for all 6 stats, Charisma is probably not going to be a priority to invest in, so that Battlemaster Fighter doesn't come out as the most charismatic of fellows. They're going to place their highest number in one of Strength or Dexterity so their attacks can land more often and deal more damage, then in Constitution so they don't die, and then probably in Wisdom so they're less likely to get caught with their pants down.

And I don't see a build centering around Commander's Strike and Rally being particularly useful. The action economy works against you for the former and the HP scaling on the latter isn't great. Most Battlemasters would be better off aiding their allies by inconveniencing their enemies through Disarming Attack, Menacing Attack, Trip Attack, etc.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Except that the OP was specifically looking for charismatic heroes, and unless somebody rolled 14-18 for all 6 stats, Charisma is probably not going to be a priority to invest in, so that Battlemaster Fighter doesn't come out as the most charismatic of fellows. They're going to place their highest number in one of Strength or Dexterity so their attacks can land more often and deal more damage, then in Constitution so they don't die, and then probably in Wisdom so they're less likely to get caught with their pants down.

Yes, if you're trying to fulfill a literary trope, then you need to give your characters some literary consideration. That is to say, as the designated protagonist, they should be rolling 1d6+12 for each stat. Low stats are for chumps.

If you're rolling randomly, then the warrior hero is the fighter who happened to roll well in Charisma. If you aren't rolling randomly, then the closest you can come is a Battle Master with the Rally maneuver, which is not an optimal build (though it is still quite playable, of course).

 

[BookBarbarian]

Charismatic heroes are lame. I'll take the socially awkward hero please. The one who wins over his friends with honesty and decency rather than bravado and guile.

As far as the Trope goes Paladin's are too pretentious and limited by their oaths, Valor Bards fill too much of a support role to be the main hero in a party, and Battlemaster doesn't have any of it's features enhanced by Charisma so the obvious choice is... Berserker.

 

[Psyzhran2357]

Charismatic heroes are lame. I'll take the socially awkward hero please. The one who wins over his friends with honesty and decency rather than bravado and guile.

As far as the Trope goes Paladin's are too pretentious and limited by their oaths, Valor Bards fill too much of a support role to be the main hero in a party, and Battlemaster doesn't have any of it's features enhanced by Charisma so the obvious choice is... Berserker.

Ancients Paladin. Be the life of the party.
Conquest Paladin. Drop the preachy and smite some fools.
Redemption Paladin. Be the person who gelieves in those who don't believe in themselves.

 

[BookBarbarian]

Ancients Paladin. Be the life of the party.
Conquest Paladin. Drop the preachy and smite some fools.
Redemption Paladin. Be the person who gelieves in those who don't believe in themselves.

Life of the Party character's are rarely main heroes. They tend tend to be supporting characters.

Conquest has some Dark and Brooding stuff going for it, but it's not all that heroic by nature. Great Anti-hero though.

Redemption is back to being support again.

Edit: Conquest and Redemption are also from splat books which makes them outside the OP's parameters.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Life of the Party character's are rarely main heroes. They tend tend to be supporting characters.
Redemption is back to being support again.

Support is a /requirement/ for this archetype as envisioned by the OP:

3) Ability to inspire and improve a party. Again, we want to show some mechanics as to why a group follow this person. How does this leader "lead" using the mechanics of the game?