The Combat Grid - Tactical Combat, Warfare, Sieges, Boss Battles, and Chases on a Single Page.

[Emberashh]

TL; DR here is this is a neat system, and I'm looking for a vibe check.

So as most know, I've been working on my game for a while, and in support of finally beginning to write actual content for it, I'm cleaning up and integrating updates to my Combat system, including the above update to what I call the Combat Grid.

For those that recognize it, this is based on the Tactical Grid from Hollows, and elaborates on it considerably to allow for more kinds of scenarios other than just boss battles.

The idea here is that, as it is in Hollows, that each 'Position' here represents an arbitrary Zone on a given battle space, and can be anywhere from a few feet to entire fields, but simultaneously represents the relative positioning of any who occupy these Positions, which allows for my simplistic take on Flanking rules, which in a nutshell just involve the attacker moving inward towards the Churn to attack a single target in one Movement, which in turn lets their attack be much harder to reliably React to and defend against by their target (thus ultimately increasing their damage indirectly). It can still be reacted against, without the penalty, by the targets allies, so teamwork counts for a lot with Flanking to both defend your allies and stop your enemies from defending their own.

I wasn't originally sold on bringing in the Tag system Hollows uses, but since playtesting it and comparing options it really does make the most sense. The Aerial and Depth Tags we see on the Grid are used to enable Verticality mechanics, like Vertical Assaults, where even Mages can leverage their own fall damage against a target, assuming they don't defend against it. (Think Assassins Creed)

They don't necessarily mean that theres always open sky or deep water, but are more about marking Elevations. A tower battle might have all six tags available, for example.

How Tags work is that they're either Indicators (like the Elevation Tags just discussed) or Claimables. Indicators apply to anybody in the Position, and the Elevation Tags are open to use with any Position. Other indicators, like Buildings, Obstacles, Difficult Terrain, or Turbulence, will be Position dependent.

Claimables are things like Cover or High Ground (hills, towers, walls, rooftops, etc) where only a few, or even one, combatants could make use of them simultaneously. Things like Cover or Buildings are also destructible and would indicate this.

While I don't have them on there yet, my thinking is that all the Tags will be listed on the Grid (but not in a way that takes up so much space like the Elevations do atm) and then the Keeper just has to call out and track whats available and any SP (Structural Points) are applicable.

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The Grid revolves around the Position called the "Churn" which is essentially where on a given battlespace the fight is likely to converge (typically its center). All other Positions radiate out from there, with the Support Positions being only one step away from fleeing the fight. (Currently accessible only through the Center, but once I have a computer that can do better than Paint I want to try out wrapping both Supports around the Grid)

As noted, this Grid is versatile. It can support the original Boss dynamics. In that use, the Boss fully occupies the Churn and treats the Flank as being within the Churn (meaning essentially they can attack the Flanks with melee, while everyone else still has to charge into the Churn to do the same, which has drawbacks), and the Boss doesn't move conventionally. Instead, everyone on the Grid can have their Positions shifted by the Boss, and with the 360 degree Grid Positions can be shifted pretty dramatically, which makes for some wild encounter design.

It of course works beautifully well with more typical Combat. Not much to say there!

Sieges are interesting with it even in the proto-state of how I'm going to do Warfare, as while we lack a lot of the Movement and Verticality normal combat revolves around, we're also seeing a lot of big numbers flying around, and the transition between the Siege itself and a conventional battle once walls and gates are breached is beautifully smooth.

When the time comes to really make Warfare something special (I have a huge backlog of theorycrafting for specifically hybridizing medieval warfare with high magic without it just turning into world war but magic), this will be even better.

And the last scenario that this works great for is Chase sequences, as the make up of the Grid actually makes the rules for it very simple: get to the other side before your enemies do, if one of them gets there with you, the chase starts over from Rear Support. If the side fleeing wants to just stop and fight, no weird lull, you're already on the Grid and can continue fighting.

And if either side wants to set up Ambushes, it works great especially in tandem with Class abilities, Magic, or Craftable items allowing for Tags to be created on the fly, including unique ones. Think Smoke Bombs, but also Molten Terrain.

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But anyway thats the gist of the Grid and what it can do and how it works out. Im mostly looking for a vibe check and see how people feel seeing it.

Admittedly the graphic is crummy and is still using shapes borrowed from Hollows, but I'm on limited equipment and this has generally worked just to facilitate playtesting. Definitely plan on having a cleaner and more uniform look to it when I can.

And naturally, if one doesn't appreciate how fun tactical combat can be, nor how fun wargames and boss fights can be, you might not appreciate or get what the Grid does.

While Labyrinthian Warfare isn't going to be as granular or crunchy as even simple war games are, it is going to have about as much depth, and part of the accessibility to that is rooted in this Grid, among other things.

A wargame that can be played anywhere is just neat given none of its depth is sacrificed to do it. The Grid fits on a single page of Letter (though does work better with Minis if you blow it up) which makes things very simple to deal with. I like to use magnetic push pins as markers.

Plus, the beauty is that, at least theoretically, you can apply the Grid onto a more elaborate terrain setup, so even if one wants to go for that full experience, there's no need to change the rules or learn new ones.

 

[Pedantic]

How does this interact with something like a choke point? Are all these zones expected to always be in play, regardless of the number of combatants?

 

[Umbran]

Simplistic take on flanking rules?
Nothing with 20+ zones denoting positioning is "simplistic".

 

[Emberashh]

How does this interact with something like a choke point? Are all these zones expected to always be in play, regardless of the number of combatants?

A chokepoint would be modelled by Obstacles. Lets say for example we're doing a chase down a long corridor. The entire left and right positions could all be Obstacles, leaving just the Center thats able to be moved through.

And generally yes, but it depends on the scenario as with that corridor example.

Something to make note of is that these Positions are Zones; everybody fighting could pile into a single one if they wanted. As such, there's no real hang ups doing things within them. If somebody is in the same Position as you, you can just attack them, or move to defend your friends against their attacks if they're also in that Position. Movement only comes into play when you're either using it for Velocity reasons (eg, Charge rules) or when you're shifting Positions.

Simplistic take on flanking rules?
Nothing with 20+ zones denoting positioning is "simplistic".

I suppose that depends on what you're preconceiving as Flanking.

In this context, its a +10 to your Action if you're moving inward to attack a target. Eg, Support > Ranged > Flank > Churn. The +10 means your target needs to have rolled 10 more than they would have normally to defend themselves, which in turn means you're more likely to deal out your full damage.

Thats as simple as it gets. Though if you were pointing at the Grid itself as not being simple, I'd dispute that too.

Edit: for clarity, its 15 Positions. The elevations looking like that is decieving but they shouldn't be taken as that. That'll be part of the next revision to the graphic when I can make my own properly

 

[GMMichael]

In this context, its a +10 to your Action if you're moving inward to attack a target. Eg, Support > Ranged > Flank > Churn. The +10 means your target needs to have rolled 10 more than they would have normally to defend themselves, which in turn means you're more likely to deal out your full damage.

Thats as simple as it gets. Though if you were pointing at the Grid itself as not being simple, I'd dispute that too.

To me, "as simple as it gets" is just one position, Churn. Then, if the scenario permits, the GM allows a Rear Support position for allies and/or enemies. To wander even further from "simple," a flanking character can get behind Rear Support, into Rear Flanking position. If all three positions are held by at least one character, that's one Churn, Rear Support, and Rear Flanking position per side, so 6 positions.

See module for details:

https://modos-rpg.obsidianportal.com/wikis/combat-module

 

[Emberashh]

To me, "as simple as it gets" is just one position, Churn. Then, if the scenario permits, the GM allows a Rear Support position for allies and/or enemies. To wander even further from "simple," a flanking character can get behind Rear Support, into Rear Flanking position. If all three positions are held by at least one character, that's one Churn, Rear Support, and Rear Flanking position per side, so 6 positions.

See module for details:

https://modos-rpg.obsidianportal.com/wikis/combat-module

Yeah so I'm not particularly interested in emulating how Flankings been done in the past, which is what you seem to pointing towards, and the point here is tactical combat, so just having the Churn is pretty pointless, and robs the Grid of all the things it can do and support.

Idk if may be there's just a hang up because I used the word simple, but compared to a Wargame, and compared to say a Hex Grid or even a typical Square Grid, we are looking at simpler, especially for the scales it can handle without any rules changes.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

I'd need some concrete examples of this in action before making any useful commentary on it. I think I see what you're trying to accomplish but it's a little too abstract at this stage for me to be sure, and I'm not familiar enough with Hollow to use that as a guidepost.

Does seem like what you're calling Flanking is more of what I'd think of a "move to contact" (or just charge) in wargaming parlance, which might be causing some confusion based on terminology?

 

[Emberashh]

Does seem like what you're calling Flanking is more of what I'd think of a "move to contact" (or just charge) in wargaming parlance, which might be causing some confusion based on terminology?

Well, the point of Flanking as a tactic is to get an advantage against your opponent(s) through superior Positioning, and that is what I think is important. You're getting out of a direct engagement and coming back in from a new position, and your opponent is gonna struggle to defend themselves well against your attack.

To that end, how its being used, works to convey that. We miss the granularity of facing, but I don't see that as being at all important. How its done in other games is as though its just a passive bonus you get for simply being in a different position relative to facing, but thats not how flanking actually works.

And Charging is a separate thing, in this system.

I'd need some concrete examples of this in action before making any useful commentary on it. I think I see what you're trying to accomplish but it's a little too abstract at this stage for me to be sure, and I'm not familiar enough with Hollow to use that as a guidepost.

Sure. I would record but my group doesn't want to do that after we had a doxxing incident a month ago, and solo doesn't quite convey the same dynamic you get in a group.

So I'll do a write up and set it up as a new comment here, alongside a copy of the in-progress rules write up, so you can reference stuff for more specifics. That'll be here in a bit and I'll tag you.

 

[Emberashh]

@Wofano Wotanto Here we go. Rules are attached (don't read too much into how its formatted. This is purely just to get stuff written down and sort of playable. I'm also aware Critical rules are missing entirely, as is guidance on initial dispersal into the grid, oopsies; the ironic detriments of how I design things is I forget a lot of stuff that's just become memorized at this point when I try to write the whole thing down)

For this play example, we'll avoid some of the more robust mechanics and use very simplified characters, and will focus mostly on how the Combat Grid is used.

As a caveat, this system doesn't translate well to text, and in this instance the circumstances were a little contrived to try and illustrate things; in play you'll be doing things much more efficiently, and despite what we were trying to do, when I ran this encounter over Discord we got through the whole thing in about 3 minutes of playtime.

I don't expect anyone unfamiliar with the game to be able to guess Combat can be that short, nor be familiar enough to be able to run it that fast, but that's just the nature of the game here. This isn't rules light stuff, and you have to learn how to play.

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Characters:
Hagar: an Ursh Mage. He can deal 2d8 Damage with magic, and defend by the same amount. +2 Mod to both Casting and Warding. Composure = 30
Vulsk: a Pidgin Martial. He can deal 2d12 Damage with a Maul, can Fly, and wears armor giving him 2d6 Defense. He carries with him a potion that reduces his fall damage. +2 Mod to both Striking and Guarding Composure = 35

Enemies:
Two Terran Bandits. They deal 2d6 Damage, either in melee or at range, and have +10 to their Movement. They have no Armor, but can Parry with their weapons. Their default Combat Roll is 19 and 8, but the Keeper can try for better if they want. They have +2 to Guarding, and their Composure is 25.
Neither the characters nor the enemies possess a Passive Reaction

For clarity, a Pidgin can be best described as a massive, fat Varangian Pigeon person that sounds like the Swedish Chef. An Ursh is a maratimey pirate bear. Terrans are basically humans, but they're actually non-displaying elemental phoenix people.

===========================================

Hagar and Vulsk encounter the Bandits on an open plain. A short exchange of dialogue occurs, but its to no avail. Everyone rolls for Combat.

Hagar rolls 18 and 10. He has 28 Movement to use.
Vulsk rolls 10 and 20. He has 30 Movement to use.

The Terrans take their defaults.

Each side disperses themselves into the Grid freely. Hagar and one of the Terrans remain in the Churn, while the other Terran and Vulsk back up into opposing Center Flanks.
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Vulsk goes first as he rolled highest. He decides to fly, and immediately ascends to take the Skyward Tag, spending all 30 Movement to do so. As he has no further actions he can do offensively, he uses his first d20 to drink his potion; he gains -10 to any Fall Damage he takes. He uses his second d20, the Critical, to perform a Skill Action, using Tactics. He aims to identify any weaknesses the Bandits have; they have none specifically. But as he's using a Critical, he gains a +10 to use on his next Turn.

As no one reacted against Vulsk, he passes the Initiative to Hagar.

Hagar goes in on the Bandit closest to him for an attack. He uses his 18, calling out a total of 20, and spends 10 of his Movement to gain the Charge bonus. He uses a Touch Spell, utilizing Fire Damage. He rolls an 8 and a 6, dealing a total of 24 Damage. He uses Momentum to add an additional damage die, but only gets a 1, bumping it up to 25 Damage.

The Bandit, however, Reacts against this, using his 19+2, and uses their Weapon to try to Parry the spell, getting 10 Defense, and thus taking 15 Fire Damage.

Hagar, finishing out his Turn, retreats back into the Rear Center Flank, spending 10 Movement, and casts a Bolt Spell, still utilizing Fire Damage, at the second Bandit. Hagar calls out 12 as his rating, and rolls his damage again, an 8 and a 2. He uses his Momentum to inflict the Burned Wound to the second Bandit.

Though the second Bandit can React, he opts not to.

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The Initiative passes to the first Bandit, still in the Churn. He goes after Hagar, spending 10 Movement to pass into the Rear Center Flank. As Hagar cannot React in anyway, both the Bandits attacks connect uncontested, but are pretty bad, dealing only 4 and 6 damage respectively, with no Momentum.

That Bandit then passes to his ally, who spends 10 Movement to move into the Churn. He targets Vulsk in the air, using both of his Actions as attacks. Vulsk, like Hagar, cannot defend against this, and he takes a total of 10 and 5 Damage, narrowly avoiding taking an Stuck Wound, which would have knocked him out of the sky.

============

As everyone's gone, the Round ends and a new one begins, everyone rerolling their Combat Roll.

Hagar (Composure: 20) rolls a 12 and a 12. 24 Movement.
Vulsk (Composure: 20) rolls a Nat 40. 40 Movement.

The first Terran (Composure: 10) takes the default, but the second (Composure: 15) tries to roll; he gets a 20 and a 5.

Vulsk moves first again. As he is Skyward in the Rear Center Ranged, he goes after the second Bandit in the Churn, opting to treat it as a Vertical Assault He does have to spend all 40 of his Movement to fully descend and move into the Churn, but gains 3d10 he could potentially inflict on the second Bandit. He deals only 10 damage with his weapon, and 20 with the Fall Damage.

The Bandit Reacts, however, matching the 22. He manages to parry for a total of 15, getting 12 + 1 + 3 with Momentum (dropping the 1 due to his Wound), negating the weapon damage. He and Vulsk share 10 damage from the fall, and Vulsk is knocked Prone.

Vulsk uses his second Action as a Conditioning Skill Action, and at +20 he automatically succeeds, and recovers from Prone without any cost. Vulsk opts to also make use of Natural Sprinter, an Agility ability, and trades all of his Composure for an additional +20 Movement, and immediately retreats to the Rear Right Ranged Position, spending the 20 Movement to do so.

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The second Bandit, taking the Initiative, decides to focus on Hagar. But with a 5, Hagar Reacts, and manages to use a Ward to both negate the incoming 5 Damage with 16 Defense, having rolled 8+8, and uses his two uses of Momentum to take a Stance; he has 2d8 to use with any future attempts to Defend.

Hagar, taking the Iniative back, immediately targets the second Bandit with another Bolt spell, dealing 12 Fire Damage; the first Bandit however Reacts to this, and uses 10 Movement to go into the Churn to try and defend, but he only manages 5 Defense. The remaining 7 drops the second Bandit to Zero Composure, and Hagar takes the Killing Blow; he describes how the force of the spell pushes past the first Bandits attempt to block it, and throws the second backward in a heap.

The first bandit, having failed to defend his friend, looks to return the favor, and goes after Vulsk, spending 20 Movement to shift Positions twice. As he only has an 8, Hagar is able to React and he follows him to prevent Vulsk from taking a Killing Blow, easily negating the damage of the Attack with his Stance, using both of the dice in the process.

The Round ends, and a final round occurs. Despite his Composure, Vulsk manages to take the Initiative a third time, and ends up dispatching the remaining bandit.
==================================

To explain two things I referenced:

Skill Actions: While most Skill Actions are completely improvised, each Skill Action does have one specific use included with them, and we see the use of this twice between Tactics and Conditioning.

Talent Abilities: Each Talent (which is basically a combo of Attribute and Skill Modifiers), has an Active, Passive, and Interactive Ability associated with it, which are really more clever ways to consolidate common rules (like Grappling) into a form that's easier to reference and utilize.

In this case, we see the Active Agility ability Natural Sprinter, which I'll paste in below:

Agility
The measure of agility, reflexes, grace, and hand-eye coordination.
Your Agility is derived from the following Skills: Stealth, Sleight of Hand, Guarding, and Athletics

Active: Natural Sprinter – Your Agility is not just limberness, but the speed to overcome any challenger. At any time during a given Combat Round, you my opt to spend 5 points of Composure to gain an additional 10ft in Movement. Beginning at +5 Agility, this will increase to 20ft, and you will gain a further 10ft with every additional +5 Agility you earn. If you are travelling alone, you may use this ability to gain additional Pacing at a rate of 1 Mile per 5 Composure, increasing by 1 mile at +5 Agility and gaining an additional Mile with every additional +5 you Earn.

Passive: Reflexes – Your Agility grants you the reflexes to keep up the fight. Beginning at +5 Agility, add 1d4 to every Guard you make with your weapon, armor, or body. The die size will increase by 1 for every additional +5 Agility that you Earn, up to a maximum of 1d12 at +25 Agility. At +30 Agility, you will be eligible to re-roll any 1's you receive whilst rolling for Defebse as part of a Guard. (note however that you will still be affected by Durability losses if this occurs under Momentum) Additionally, your Agility also contributes to your Passive Reaction; add your Agility modifier together with your Wisdom and Intuition Modifiers, and divide them by 2 to receive your Passive Reaction score. (see Combat for more information on your Passive Reaction)

Interactive: Marathoner – Your Agility fortifies your stamina, and you take less effort to move with haste. You may add your Agility to your Combat Roll as additional Movement, and beginning at +10 Agility, you may add up to half your Agility whilst attempting to Climb, Fly, or Swim. At +20 Agility, you my add your full modifier.

 

[Emberashh]

An alternative set up for the Grid, this time using a cleaner Chess-like nomenclature for the Positions. The A's are still the Flanks and the Bs Ranged and Cs Support, but calling out specific Positions is less of a mouth full.

And given all the empty space, I filled it with a cheat sheet with stuff you wouldn't have on a Character Sheet.