The Cthulhu Mythos and D&D homebrews

drnuncheon

Explorer
Anyone who has played the Freeport adventures has used the Mythos in their campaign. :D

I've got some Mythos elements, but they're not always present, and they're definitely seen through a pulp-fantasy-adventure filter (rather than a pulp-horror filter), which would probably drive the purists nuts as the PCs are viable antagonists for the creatures they meet rather than being hopelessly outclassed.

J
 

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kenjib

First Post
Joshua Dyal said:
Y'know, I've been meaning to ask for a long time -- what's the deal with gamers and Lovecraft anyway? I don't think I've ever heard that horror fans, or fantasy fans or sci-fi fans, or other "geeks" particularly think anything at all about Lovecraft -- unless they're also gamers. Gamers, for some reason, seem to love Lovecraft.

Me -- I read Lovecraft long before I was seriously gaming regularly. I like some of his stuff well enough, but I don't think he's a particularly good author, and many of his ideas of what is horrific were just too strange to be horrifying to me; they left me scratching my head rather than feeling disturbed.

My love for Lovecraft predates gaming. Well, it's after my childhood 1e slugfest gaming years but before my modern gaming years -- a lapse of over a dozen years, so pretty much completely unrelated to gaming.

Take Lovecraft in context and consider some of the contemporaries that are most reflected in his stories: T.S. Eliot and Albert Einstein are two of the big ones. His "cosmic horror" derives from two sources. The first is the emergence of relativity, modern technology, and the sudden opening of the vast vistas in science. This is very evident in his choice of adjectives. The Music of Eric Zann, the Colour Out of Space, and Call of Cthlulhu are all good places to see this influence.

The second has to do with Modernism and the collapse of the Hegelian dialectic. The dialectic of European imperialism is collapsing, indeed to the European world it almost seems that civilization itself could be in regression/collapse. There were also the theories popular with Yeats and others at the time by which history became viewed as more cyclical than progressive. The Rats in the Walls, the Dunwich Horror, the Outsider, the Mountains of Madness, the Doom that came to Sarnath -- these are just a few of the good examples of these thoughts.

This is where Lovecraft, and I would argue T.S. Eliot as well, begin to show their inability to deal with the new world of pluralism and subjectivity that was emerging at the time. These things are terrible horrors that threaten to destroy the world order. Of course other authors at the time, like William Carlos Williams, seemed to recognize that it was more the birth of a new world order, but that's a different topic. This trend is often interpreted as racism, but while the elements are there, the issue as a whole is much more complex. Where T.S. Eliot handles this issue with a stoic retreat into the trappings of patriarchal oligarchy (both in his work and in his life), Lovecraft, by exploring and obsessing on the issue directly -- confronting his demons as it were -- seems somehow to unintentionally foreshadow the existentialism that would eventually emerge in reaction. In the process he utterly emasculates himself by almost invariably stripping all sense of power and control from his characters.

In this context, can you better see how the concept of pure irrationality can become pure horror? I think Lovecraft's writings are fascinating when looked at within the Modernist tradition from which they were born. However, since his collected works are one of those intricate webs of symbollic relationships that can be constantly reinterpreted from different frameworks -- Freudian, Modernist, Existentialism, Post-Structuralist, Marxist, Humanist, etc., you can read him from all sorts of perspectives. It takes a good writer to produce something with these "timeless" qualities.

rounser said:

It appeals to gamers because it was only consolidated and presented as a whole in their media.

I must, unfortunately, disagree with this. The Cthulhu mythos were well explored in the 30's when various authors (many published in Wierd Tales magazine -- including Robert Howard) all shared and expanded on these mythos. In some sense, the mythos were similar to an open source project. Arkham House Publishing later led a revival of HP Lovecraft that spawned the modern interest in his works. H.P. Lovecraft's own books, as a collection, have a pretty fluid cosmology that didn't need clarification via rpg materials. I understood all of this just from his books and before ever reading the CoC rpg.

P.S. For what it's worth, I also think that Lovecraft's writing style is great. Instantly recognizable, his grotesquely baroque ornamentations were perfectly matched to his subject matter. As Skade said, H.P. Lovecraft seemed to write like a fevered madman (Byronic, perhaps), which was exactly the mood and tone that his stories needed. Lovecraft's words have the quality of making me think in a different way while reading them.

P.P.S. Another reason that Lovecraft might be popular among gamers is simply that he is one of the primary forefathers of the modern fantasy genre and has been very influential, even if he is not quite mainstream (on the cusp though, I'd say). His influence is there in a lot of Gary Gygax stuff - Tharizdun, Dwellers of the Forbidden City, all of the strange cults everywhere, and he's one of the recommended authors in the 1e DMG.

P.P.P.S. I agree that he is inconsistent. All of his dreamworld fantasy stuff is crap, for example.
 

barsoomcore

Unattainable Ideal
kenjib said:
That's what I would have said, above, if I knew how to spell "Heglian dialectic".

Seriously.

And I just want to give a big shout-out to Stephen King, who has been a tireless champion of Lovecraft for pretty much his entire career. Anyone interested in fantastic writing, movies and so on MUST read Danse Macabre by King, which he based off a series of lectures he gave at a university writing class. It's tremendous.

I started reading ol' HP because of King's constant cheerleading.
 

Sixchan

First Post
Kamikaze Midget said:
I did once-upon-a-time incorporate the Mythos. I had a 'cleric' serving them rescue the PC's from slavery and lead them on a world-spanning mission to repay him by releasing ancient Heroes to challenge the world's Great Evil.

Of course, the cleric was really just sending them through a ceremony that would release them.

It *was* going to culminate in a big battle with something tentacled, but the campaign ended before that.

And they'll next be making an appearance when I run my "Forgotten Realms, Forgotten Gods" campaign, wherein typical D&D magic is suddenly maddening, and those effects on one of the most magical worlds of all, FR. One day, Elminster was your average omnipotent wizard. The next day, he's curled in the fetal position, going "Ia! Ia!", and Mystra is unreachable.

MWahaha. :)

Pen and Paper or over the Forums? Sounds like a great campaign idea. Plus, Elminster is insane! HA! Take that Ellie!
 

rounser

First Post
I must, unfortunately, disagree with this. The Cthulhu mythos were well explored in the 30's when various authors (many published in Wierd Tales magazine -- including Robert Howard) all shared and expanded on these mythos. In some sense, the mythos were similar to an open source project. Arkham House Publishing later led a revival of HP Lovecraft that spawned the modern interest in his works. H.P. Lovecraft's own books, as a collection, have a pretty fluid cosmology that didn't need clarification via rpg materials. I understood all of this just from his books and before ever reading the CoC rpg.
Aye, but just because the other authors who were doing Mythos stuff "got it", doesn't mean you could grok all the themes of the Mythos by reading one or two mythos stories.

Compare this to Conan. You read one Conan story, by REH, you've read them all. The themes of the genre are simple, and instantly identifiable. On the other hand, you could read The Rats In The Walls and Dagon and still have no clear idea of what the Cthulhu Mythos was all about. I think the comparison is particularly relevant because REH's work got explored by various authors as well.
 
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ruleslawyer

Registered User
Keep in mind, of course, that S.T. Joshi (the premier Lovecraft scholar... can you believe it?) has surmised that the Cthulhu "mythos" is really an "anti-mythology': an inchoate series of barely related concepts that's meant to confound any understanding of it as a whole. If Lovecraft really set out to accomplish the creation of such an anti-system, he's got my vote as a visionary, if not a writer (much of his stuff is, as others have said, somewhat puerile). Certainly, Derleth's and others' attempts to piece together a coherent mythology from this mess are pretty bad, perhaps because they go against the intent of the original project.

I'm surprised to hear this gamers-only thing about HPL; I always assumed that he had a big following among horror fans in general. Practically every horror book I've ever read, and several of the films I've seen, owe something to Lovecraft.
 

kenjib said:
P.P.P.S. I agree that he is inconsistent. All of his dreamworld fantasy stuff is crap, for example.
eek.gif
"Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" is one of my favorite Lovecraft stories ever, although I don't really consider it to be part of the mythos -- more of a somewhat Dunsanian fling Lovecraft went through.
 

ruleslawyer said:
Keep in mind, of course, that S.T. Joshi (the premier Lovecraft scholar... can you believe it?) has surmised that the Cthulhu "mythos" is really an "anti-mythology': an inchoate series of barely related concepts that's meant to confound any understanding of it as a whole. If Lovecraft really set out to accomplish the creation of such an anti-system, he's got my vote as a visionary, if not a writer (much of his stuff is, as others have said, somewhat puerile). Certainly, Derleth's and others' attempts to piece together a coherent mythology from this mess are pretty bad, perhaps because they go against the intent of the original project.
I don't buy that for a minute. Lovecraft himself called his "mythos" nothing more than an unrelated collection of plot devices, IIRC, in his article on how to write horror.
 

LostSoul

Adventurer
rounser said:
Out of curiousity, who has involved the Cthulhu mythos in their D&D campaign, and how have you done so?

I'm running a less-than-regular (need some campaign fibre) Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil that I've mixed with Call of Cthulu. From what I've heard about the module, and from somewhere deep inside my belly, I wanted this campaign to be dark, terrifying, and pervaded with a sense of hopelessness. The original module doesn't have much flavour in this fashion; "Elemental Gods of Evil" just aren't scary to me. So I altered the forces of evil to fit with the Cthulu Mythos and put a lot of "vile" material in there.

So far the changes I've made have been great. The Players really get the feeling that there are some sick, disgusting people running around trying to do something, and whatever that something is can't be good.

I haven't used any Mythos monsters, or had a reason to make SAN checks (I'm using the Sanity Hardness in the CoC d20 book). I've only used one CoC spell - Consume Likeness - who knows if the PCs are going to use it (I doubt it). I'm looking forward to putting more CoC stuff in there, though.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
rounser said:

Aye, but just because the other authors who were doing Mythos stuff "got it", doesn't mean you could grok all the themes of the Mythos by reading one or two mythos stories.

Compare this to Conan. You read one Conan story, by REH, you've read them all. The themes of the genre are simple, and instantly identifiable. On the other hand, you could read The Rats In The Walls and Dagon and still have no clear idea of what the Cthulhu Mythos was all about. I think the comparison is particularly relevant because REH's work got explored by various authors as well.

A particularly ironic example, since the revised edition of Encyclopedia Cthuliana says that the Conan stories are something of a sub-section of the Cthulhu Mythos (e.g. it places them in the context of the Mythos).
 

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