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The Current State of "Simple d20"?

Laslo Tremaine

Explorer
I'm just wondering if there is anything new in the area of a simplified d20 game system.

What I am looking for is a system that would let me use the majority of existing d20 stuff that is out there (scenarios, monsters, feats, etc) while being much more simplified and streamlined than D&D 3.5.

My ideal would be something like a amalgam of True20 and Castles & Crusades. There are things I like about each system (True20 more than C&C), but both have quirks that would keep me, or some of the other players in my group, from using either of them.

Here are some of my requirements for a simple d20 system.

•Flexible Character Generation: True20 and Grim Tales do this really well! A few generic classes with multi-classing and feats giving customization and flexibility. Here's where C&C completely drops the ball for me.

•Basic Skill System: True20 captures this almost perfectly for me by folding many of the skills into each other (listen and spot become notice, for example). I really don't like the way C&C handles (or fails to handle) this.

•Reduced number of standard feats. True20 almost has too many for me. C&C obviously does not have enough.

•Fast Combat. No Attacks if Opportunity, and no reliance on miniatures. Keep the number of options in combat fairly low. Just a move action and a standard action. Reduce the number of character conditions (stunned, dazed, shaken, etc). This is very important to me in speeding up the flow of play. C&C seems to do this very well.

•Simple Creature Mechanics: C&C seems to do this well enough. Just some basic stats are all I really need. True20 fails, in that all creatures use all the the same stats as players, ending up in too much time spent on scenario creation or conversion.

•Portabilty From Other d20 Systems. C&C seem to do pretty well with this (mainly by making its internal system so dead simple). True20 fails, mainly because of the whole "damage save" mechanic.


My main goal for a simplified d20 system is to create a fast and light game engine that maintains compatibility with existing D&D materials. This would allow for a more streamlined play experience while being able to minimize prep time (both through simpler mechanics and access to pre-generated materials).

C&C succeeds on a number of levels with this. You can take pretty much any existing D&D scenario and play it using the C&C rules with a minimum of effort. This is my ideal.

Unfortunately C&C is saddled with a number of systems that I find fairly unpalatable and most of it is due to C&C's unflagging nostalgia factor. First off, I want a skill system; the SIEGE engine is not for me. Secondly I want much more generic and flexible character classes. And while I am not a fan of the Vancian magic system, I am willing to maintain it for compatibility purposes.

True20 is pretty much the perfect game system for me. It hits almost every note just right. Unfortunately, for this specific purpose, I want easy compatibility with existing d20 material, and mainly because of the Damage Save mechanic, True20 complete falls down.


So I ask if anyone knows of anything that comes close to this. I really don't want to have to write a game system from scratch, and it seems that there should be a market for this kind of thing. Anyone know of an existing system that I might have missed that comes close to meeting these requirements?
 

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Kesh

First Post
I'm not aware of any system that blends things the way you like. However, the beautiful thing is that all those systems are OGL, so you could blend them to your heart's desire and even publish the results for others to enjoy. :)
 

eyebeams

Explorer
I have a prototype for just such a system on file, but with C&C and True20, I figured upping the simplification stakes wouldn't make for saleable product.

If you *would* buy a simple system as described in the first post, post here and tell me. It'll let me know whether or not to release it.
 

Dragonblade

Adventurer
Well, M&M 2e is basically a modified version of True20. You might want to pick that up when it comes out and then pick up the Mastermind's Manual.

The Mastermind's Manual will have info on converting M&M 2e into a hitpoint system and much of that information will likely be relevant to True20 as well. Using a hitpoint system, you should be able to use most standard 3.5 critters with a minimum of conversion.
 

Zoatebix

Working on it
I'm definately interested, eyebeams!

Also - check out the True20 Forums on Green Ronin's website, Laslo. I'm on dialup, so I can't scare up a link quickly, but there's a thread with some exhaustive creature conversion/creation guidelines.
 

Razuur

First Post
You might be interested in the OMNI system by Morrigan.

If fulfills a lot of your desires.

Might need a little conversion on D20 stuff as it is levelless and classless (replaced by callings which are specific unique classes.

Check it out!

Razuur
 

radferth

First Post
IIRC, it would not be that difficult to place damage and HP back into True 20. I would think True20HP would meet most of your needs (except the feat & state simplification). I have not yet had a chance to try True20's damage save mechanic, but it seem interesting to me, albeit not the best for a typical D&D-style campaign.
 


Breakdaddy

First Post
Remove C&C Siege Engine...
Strap on True20 Skill engine in its place.

for purposes of point allocation and skill selection:
Fighter, Ranger, Knight= warrior
Rogue, Monk= Expert
etc., etc.

I actually have read of someone using this system (on rpg.net maybe?) and claimed that it worked fine. I can't see why it wouldnt.

Of course, this only adresses one of your points, but you could also strap the feat system on from True20 to help you flesh the characters out more. I have done my own Feat conversion from True20 to C&C that is a bit more streamlined for my game.
 
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Laslo Tremaine

Explorer
Thanks, everyone, for all of the replies.

The best suggestion so far seems to take C&C and plug in the True20 skill/character system, and this might be the route that I go.

But...

The main problem is that I have two players who have a severe reaction against home-brew systems. They pretty much flat-out refuse to play in one (even though there is a strong undercurrent of unhappiness with the complexity of D&D 3.5). I can only attribute this to a traumatic house-rule experience sometime in their childhoods... Because of this, they pretty much demand a "published" system. Hence, the question that started this thread.

Now to cover various suggestions that people have made.

As far as Mutant & Masterminds goes. I am intimately familiar with this game, being that I am playing and GMing a campaign that has been going non-stop since the release of the game. We love it. But it strays pretty far from a number of standards that make it significantly incompatible with pretty much any version of D&D.

Also, I personally like the M&M/True20 damage save mechanic. Others in my group are not fans, and as I have said before, I think converting the damage save mechanic would be a significant, and ongoing hassle.

I am just now looking at CORE and it certainly is a step in the right direction.

Over-all, I am very surprised that no-one has done anything like this, but it looks like I will be doing it myself (if I can get others in my group to buy into it). If I do end up making my own system, I will make it available, if not for free then very cheaply on RPG Now...
 

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