The Dark Eight & other Q's

[Azure Trance]

I'm not sure if I have the exact title remembered, but where do the 'Dark Eight' stand? Is Asmo above them, one of them, or below them? What do they exactly do?

And is there a list of the various Demon Princes and Dukes of Hell (odd why there aren't any other title though) online?

In Legions of Hell there is a referene to the fall of the Samyassan-something Host, when it was led to a downfall for the temptations of mortal pleasures. Is this based on a real world myth, and if so were there other 'celestial fallings' as well? I just assumed that there was only (the big) one caused by Satan.

Finally someone mentioned in one of the recent topics that Asmodeus overthrew Lucifer who overthrew Satan - I thought Satan and Lucifer were synonyms (I suppose like devil and demon are in a non-D&D sense), but do they have different linguistic roots?

 

[Ulrick]

"The Dark Eight are pit fiend generals that run the Blood War for Asmodeus. They are considered the leaders of the Baatezu race and report directly to the Dark Lord of Nessus. They have little interaction with the lords of the first layers, although they do compete with them for recruits. Nearly all of their time is taken up prosecuting the Blood War, and the descend to Malsheem to conference with Asmodeus four times a year." --p. 47, A Guide to Hell

Ulrick

 

[Ulrick]

As for the rest of your questions, are we speaking in "Real World" terms or strictly in "game terms?" I suggest sticking to game terms.

In Monster Manual II, (1st ed) there are lists of the Archdevils and Demon Princes.

Chris Pramas, the author of both Legions of Hell and A Guide to Hell, used sources other than D&D for his research when he wrote Legions of Hell.

Perhaps in his research (the bibliography is on p.62), he found information about two rebellions. Yet Satan/Lucifer isn't mentioned at all in that book.

In the real world, Satan and Lucifer are synonymous. Satan derives from "Shaitan" which means "The Adversary" while Lucifer means "Fallen Star." The name Lucifer is Greek. I think "Shaitan" might be Hebrew. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I just did some quick research...Shaitan is originaly Arabic.
And Satan is mentioned in Legions of Hell. According to the Islamic source I consulted, Iblis is another name for Satan.

Ulrick

 

[Gothmog]

...Lucifer means "Fallen Star." The name Lucifer is Greek.

Actually, if I remember my Latin correctly, Lucifer is Latin in origin, and means "light bearer".

 

[Wayside]

While Satan and Lucifer have come to be treated synonymously, the latter was associated with Satan by an error in reading. Luciferus is Latin for the morning star and means 'light bearing,' not 'fallen star.' Again, the association with Satan is an old mistake that has crept into the popular conception, sort of like the eymology of internecine.

There is extant information about two rebellions, but they are alternate accounts, so one made it into the bible and the other didn't (the Nephilim are still mentioned in a few places though).

 

[Azure Trance]

"The Dark Eight are pit fiend generals that run the Blood War for Asmodeus. They are considered the leaders of the Baatezu race and report directly to the Dark Lord of Nessus. They have little interaction with the lords of the first layers, although they do compete with them for recruits. Nearly all of their time is taken up prosecuting the Blood War, and the descend to Malsheem to conference with Asmodeus four times a year." --p. 47, A Guide to Hell

Ulrick

So:

 Asmodeus
        ^
       ||
 The Dark Eight
        ^
       ||
 The Remaining Eight Lords of Hell

Would this imply then that the Dark Eight are more powerful then the 8 Lords as well? Have any of them been statted, or fully named? IIRC a few were named in one of the PSMC books, but for all I know they were a background force like the 'gentleman stranger' in Ravenloft was.

 

[Polyhex]

The Dark Eight are briefly mentioned in Dieties and Demi-Gods. They're like, outside the heirarchy of Hell.

See, the Lords of the Nine aren't really involved in the Blood War with the Tanar'ri. That is the responsibility of the Dark Eight, they're Hell's generals against the Tanar'ri.

The Lords of the Nine are more concerned with temptation of mortals and plots against each other, against the gods. The Dark Eight report to Asmodeus.

It would be more correct to say that the Dark Eight are below the Nine.

 

[arwink]

As far as I knew, the Dark 8 were considered below the other lords of hell, being mostly concerned with the Bloodwar. They also tend to have a fairly close relationship with the lord of the first (Bel? Can't remember) because his layer is usually the first to be attacked.

On the whole, they're two completely seperate spheres of influence. The Lords are probably more powerful both personally and politically, but if the dark eight discovered that one of the lords was endangering Hell's standing in the bloodwar, they'd be getting Asmodeus to come down on the lord like a tonne of bricks.

 

[Rhialto]

Best analogy I can come up with--the Lords of the Nine are Nazi High Command--the Dark Eight are the SS chiefs. The High Command outranks the SS, but the SS has the ear of the der Fuhrer....

 

[Gizzard]

According to BoVD, "Hell's generals are a council of Pit Fiends called the Dark Eight."

As Pit Fiends, any one of the 8 would be less powerful than any ruler of a plane, though as a group they are influential. Bel, Lord of the First Plane is a "former Pit Fiend" and is "held in high favor among the Dark Eight, and that is not a bit of influence to be overlooked."