Gothmog
First Post
Great post, thanks for sharing. Your experiences with 4e largely mirror my own. Your changes for the wizard at-wills look like a great idea to me- I plan on implementing those and seeing how things go for our wizard player.
One thing we did to cut down on "grindiness" was to give all characters a bonus to damage rolls equal to 1/2 their level. So if an 8th level fighter with 18 Str hits with Tide of Iron, he does 1W + 8, rather than 1W + 4. Its a small change, but does tend to help in fights with elites and solos, and common monsters tend to go down about one hit quicker.
Two things I wanted to comment on:
1. I think having a group of people who are already friends and work well together is vital in 4e. When 4e first came out, a group I tried 4e with as a player was composed mostly of former 3.5 players who didn't know each other all that well. They used their 3.5 playstyles (meaning lone wolf stuff, running off alone) during 4e, and suffered a TPK in a big hurry. One guy threw a tantrum, screaming that the DM had it in for him, that 4e was a "piece of $&^#!", that he was "good at D&D, and this is BS!" We booted the guy from the group (and good riddance), and I still play with these guys. We had some growing pains, but now we are working very well together as a team and enjoying 4e a lot. 4e does require a different mindset than 3.x did, in that no one character can be entirely self-sufficient or steal the spotlight.
2. If someone comes in wanting to hate 4e, they are going to hate it no matter what, and ruin everybody else's time. There is a surprising amount of anger and bile over 4e, and we tried to include two different guys in the above group that were hardcore 3.x fans, but who wanted to see what 4e was about. During play, they constantly made jabs at the game and those who enjoyed it, and clearly didn't get the idea 4e is more team-based in play. We tried to work with them, teach them some tricks we had learned (and to their credit they did pull off some cool, interesting stuff), but their constant complaints poisoned the game for everyone else. After two sessions of their grousing, we decided not to invite them back. Neither one was personally an objectionable guy or threw temper tantrums (like the immature guy in point #1), but their overwhelming need to prove their "loyalty" (their word) to 3.x and try to convert us away from 4e made them tiresome and unpleasant to game with.
As for adventures, KotS has the potential to be GREAT, but not as written. There are just way too many non-sensical combats strung in a row, and the PCs actions make little difference since the module is so static and rigid. When I ran it, I used a LOT more undead (mostly zombie rotters and decrepit skeletons) in the ruins and eliminated the goblins and hobgoblins entirely. Areas of the ruins were completely abandoned, with the remains of the original tragedy that occured in Shadowfell Keep apparent with some investigation. I added ghostly apparitions over the keeps former occupants who played out their lives every night (but who didn't respond to the PCs or combat), and on the anniversary of the slaughter, they re-enacted their battle. I also added three underpriests of Orcus under Kalarel, and the PCs manage to capture one alive and get some info and background from him after battling a horde of undead minions. After this, another of the underpriests contacted the PCs in town and betrayed Kalarel to them- while the PCs were busy fighting Kalarel, this underpriest stole a relic of Orcus and fled with it. The PCs eventually realized they had been duped by this guy, and want vengeance on him for giving them some faulty info that almost got them killed. My modified KotS went over really well, but as written KotS is pretty dull.
I currently run two 4e groups, and play in another. So far, we've having a blast with 4e- its a LOT more fun than 3.x ever was for us, and I'm finding not only is it easier to prep for, but my excitement for DMing has been revitalized!
One thing we did to cut down on "grindiness" was to give all characters a bonus to damage rolls equal to 1/2 their level. So if an 8th level fighter with 18 Str hits with Tide of Iron, he does 1W + 8, rather than 1W + 4. Its a small change, but does tend to help in fights with elites and solos, and common monsters tend to go down about one hit quicker.
Two things I wanted to comment on:
1. I think having a group of people who are already friends and work well together is vital in 4e. When 4e first came out, a group I tried 4e with as a player was composed mostly of former 3.5 players who didn't know each other all that well. They used their 3.5 playstyles (meaning lone wolf stuff, running off alone) during 4e, and suffered a TPK in a big hurry. One guy threw a tantrum, screaming that the DM had it in for him, that 4e was a "piece of $&^#!", that he was "good at D&D, and this is BS!" We booted the guy from the group (and good riddance), and I still play with these guys. We had some growing pains, but now we are working very well together as a team and enjoying 4e a lot. 4e does require a different mindset than 3.x did, in that no one character can be entirely self-sufficient or steal the spotlight.
2. If someone comes in wanting to hate 4e, they are going to hate it no matter what, and ruin everybody else's time. There is a surprising amount of anger and bile over 4e, and we tried to include two different guys in the above group that were hardcore 3.x fans, but who wanted to see what 4e was about. During play, they constantly made jabs at the game and those who enjoyed it, and clearly didn't get the idea 4e is more team-based in play. We tried to work with them, teach them some tricks we had learned (and to their credit they did pull off some cool, interesting stuff), but their constant complaints poisoned the game for everyone else. After two sessions of their grousing, we decided not to invite them back. Neither one was personally an objectionable guy or threw temper tantrums (like the immature guy in point #1), but their overwhelming need to prove their "loyalty" (their word) to 3.x and try to convert us away from 4e made them tiresome and unpleasant to game with.
As for adventures, KotS has the potential to be GREAT, but not as written. There are just way too many non-sensical combats strung in a row, and the PCs actions make little difference since the module is so static and rigid. When I ran it, I used a LOT more undead (mostly zombie rotters and decrepit skeletons) in the ruins and eliminated the goblins and hobgoblins entirely. Areas of the ruins were completely abandoned, with the remains of the original tragedy that occured in Shadowfell Keep apparent with some investigation. I added ghostly apparitions over the keeps former occupants who played out their lives every night (but who didn't respond to the PCs or combat), and on the anniversary of the slaughter, they re-enacted their battle. I also added three underpriests of Orcus under Kalarel, and the PCs manage to capture one alive and get some info and background from him after battling a horde of undead minions. After this, another of the underpriests contacted the PCs in town and betrayed Kalarel to them- while the PCs were busy fighting Kalarel, this underpriest stole a relic of Orcus and fled with it. The PCs eventually realized they had been duped by this guy, and want vengeance on him for giving them some faulty info that almost got them killed. My modified KotS went over really well, but as written KotS is pretty dull.
I currently run two 4e groups, and play in another. So far, we've having a blast with 4e- its a LOT more fun than 3.x ever was for us, and I'm finding not only is it easier to prep for, but my excitement for DMing has been revitalized!
