D&D 4E The Economy of Actions in 4e

[jaldaen]

So I've been wondering about the economy of actions works out in 4e since picking up the first three "core books." So far it seems each class has a relatively balanced set of actions each round (Standard, Move, and Minor) with the ability to gain an additional action via an action point. This means everyone's turn takes about the same amount of time (except when large AoE attacks are being tossed around).

There are also Opportunity Actions (Opportunity Attacks) 1/creatures turn and Immediate Actions (Interrupts & Reactions) 1/round thrown into the action mix. However, although OAs are common, IAs are uncommon sue to the power choices available to most of the classes (Ranger seems to have the most IA-based powers). In addition, the powers that access IAs are mostly utility powers.

With these things in mind, I am trying to figure out where IAs fall into the economy of actions. Although you could technically have 1/round it seems that most IA powers are specifically built to not be 1/round but rather 1/encounter or day.

So my current questions are:

How much are IAs worth in the economy of actions? It seems they are worth 1 damage die when building powers, but is there a reason, besides only so much room in the PHB for powers, that they are rarer than other powers? Is it because if every class had access to good IA powers, then each player's actions per round would be increased and thereby extend the duration of each round?

If you built a class whose schtick was to make use of IAs would it be unfair to the other classes (b/c of a constant access to IAs)? Or do you think that as more splat books come out all the classes will be able to make better use of their IAs?

Also for those interested in familiars, companions, summoning, etc... would expending IAs be a good way of balancing these "extra" bodies? Or should a class that has a familiar, companion, summoned creature stick with sacrificing standard actions, move actions, and minor actions to direct these types of "extras."

What are some of your comments, questions, and suggestions about the economy of action in 4e.

I look forward to reading your responses and hope everyone has a great day!

 

[Mengu]

Immediate Actions that are granted by powers:

1. Are rare because you don't want too many Immediate Action interactions.

2. Get one die because typically you are giving up an encounter power that does two dice damage and using a 1 die damage at will power instead, so you can get that other die of damage in a more opportune moment.

3. Can be used to wrack up damage quicker. You can use an Encounter Power, Action Point, Daily Power, and on your opponent's turn possibly squeeze in that Immediate Action Encounter Power, and between all that, squeeze in an item Daily Power for lots of damage potential, before your turn comes around again.

And last but not least, I have no idea if I answered your question or not because I'm not sure what exactly you mean by economy of actions.

 

[bardolph]

IAs are not a limited resource, so using IAs to balance pets would not balance properly.

The various Conjuration powers in the PHB give good examples of how to balance the economy of actions. Use minor actions for movement, and move actions for attacks. If the character can't spare the actions, then the pet stays put and growls, but may be able to take OAs against foes that provoke them.

It would also be cool to tie encounter/daily powers to your pets, so that if you and your pet have good position on the battlefield, you get access to nice multi-attack powers (similar to Ranger off-hand strikes).

For a pet-based class, you might even link one or two At-Will powers to the pet.

 

[TK Lafours]

If you built a class whose schtick was to make use of IAs would it be unfair to the other classes (b/c of a constant access to IAs)? Or do you think that as more splat books come out all the classes will be able to make better use of their IAs?

I think this class wouldn't be much fun for any of the players or the DM. The person playing it would have to pay close attention for triggers or miss them and also accept that on their own turns they can't do anything cool and if nothing triggers an interrupt they may never do something cool. For DM and other players, they will constantly be getting interrupted during their own turns which would get old fast and ruin the flow.

I think there are just enough interrupt powers to keep the tactical side of the game fun without overwhelming the economy of actions thing.

 

[jaldaen]

IAs are not a limited resource, so using IAs to balance pets would not balance properly.

I agreed with everything you said except this, but mainly because I want to find out how you are defining "limited resource," b/c if you can only use Standard, Move, and Minor Actions 1/round and an Immediate Action 1/round, then aren't they all "limited resources?"

Opportunity Actions on the other hand are much less limited since they can fire on each creature's turn and not 1/round.

 

[jaldaen]

And last but not least, I have no idea if I answered your question or not because I'm not sure what exactly you mean by economy of actions.

You can find the origin of the "economy of actions" thoughtline here.

 

[bardolph]

I agreed with everything you said except this, but mainly because I want to find out how you are defining "limited resource," b/c if you can only use Standard, Move, and Minor Actions 1/round and an Immediate Action 1/round, then aren't they all "limited resources?"

Opportunity Actions on the other hand are much less limited since they can fire on each creature's turn and not 1/round.

My mistake. I was confusing Immediate Actions with Opportunity Actions.

 

[jaldaen]

I think this class wouldn't be much fun for any of the players or the DM. The person playing it would have to pay close attention for triggers or miss them and also accept that on their own turns they can't do anything cool and if nothing triggers an interrupt they may never do something cool. For DM and other players, they will constantly be getting interrupted during their own turns which would get old fast and ruin the flow.

Thanks for you comments... they make sense and I can see how too many IAs would probably hurt the overall flow of play.

I guess my next question is would it be less disruptive if a class could "sacrifice" its IA for a round for some small benefit on its turn and thereby avoid the interuptions? Note this would probably have to be limited, such as 1/encounter or day class feature so you don't have a constant bonus. Of course, then the question comes up as to what is an IA worth in the economy of actions? An extra move or minor action on your turn?

I think there are just enough interrupt powers to keep the tactical side of the game fun without overwhelming the economy of actions thing.

I think there are a couple classes that could use some IA power options, but for the most part I agree with you

 

[jaldaen]

My mistake. I was confusing Immediate Actions with Opportunity Actions.

That's what I thought...

So in light of that what do you think of working IAs into the above scenarios? Would it be too much to keep track of, too disruptive to other player/DMs turns? What about sacrificing your IA for a round to do something minor on your turn?

For example: If you summon a Widget, you could spend a minor action or sacrifice your immediate action for the round to move it.

Is an IA worth a minor action? Less than a minor action? More than?

 

[bardolph]

Honestly, I'd rate IAs as higher than Standards, since they happen in addition to Standard actions. There aren't any examples in the PHB of Conjurations that consume players' IAs, so I would avoid any kind of At-Will abilities that consume player IAs.

I think it would be nifty to have some Encounter/Daily powers that allow your pet to take an IA, as long as the overall effect isn't more powerful that other IA powers. For example, a "Loyal Protector" power that uses the PCs IA to give the pet an attack against a creature that just damaged the PC.