D&D 5E The Eldritch Knight...what am I missing?

[Zardnaar]

Its a waste for blasting, not to bad with cantrips from SCAG, is one of the best fighters later on but blooms late. Careful spell selection is required IMHO (shield, enhance ability, haste, greater invisibility etc).

 

[Ancalagon]

Use the search feature, I am sure there was a pretty good thread about this a few weeks ago. The consensus back then was that the EK has superb defensive potential.

 

[krakistophales]

What are you optimizing for?

Because I want to squeeze every last drop out of a class and its prospective archetypes. Perhaps I fear failure. Perhaps I enjoy winning. I'm not sure...

 

[Ganymede81]

Perhaps I fear failure. Perhaps I enjoy winning. I'm not sure...

Wait, is that you or is that your character's Ideal/Bond/Flaw?

 

[FrogReaver]

Because I want to squeeze every last drop out of a class and its prospective archetypes. Perhaps I fear failure. Perhaps I enjoy winning. I'm not sure...

Did not ask why you are optimizing. I asked what you were wanting to optimize on your character...

 

[n00b f00]

They get the spell shield, and shield is dope. At lvl 7 they get cantrip plus attack, which is pretty dope. They are pretty chill for MCing with for gish builds, because they get spells, and have caster progression.

For the most part they're for people who want to play fighters with a few magical tricks. They're cool, but BM might be a bit stronger at lvl 3. You can go either way with good int or dumping it. I'd prefer to put some points in it, unless you're getting MAD, or rather save the points. Double fireballs with the action surge baby(that could be done quicker with MCing but still).

 

[krakistophales]

They get the spell shield, and shield is dope. At lvl 7 they get cantrip plus attack, which is pretty dope. They are pretty chill for MCing with for gish builds, because they get spells, and have caster progression.

For the most part they're for people who want to play fighters with a few magical tricks. They're cool, but BM might be a bit stronger at lvl 3. You can go either way with good int or dumping it. I'd prefer to put some points in it, unless you're getting MAD, or rather save the points. Double fireballs with the action surge baby(that could be done quicker with MCing but still).

How would you multiclass with EK effectively?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

How would you multiclass with EK effectively?

You've got a few options. If you want to keep your DPR up, a Rogue multiclass works pretty well, e.g. Sharpshooter EK 11/Swashbuckler 9. (Whether you go EK first or Swashbuckler first will vary based on what playstyle you prefer.) That gives you at-will ranged damage about as good as a regular Sharpshooter EK 20, possibly better against high-AC foes. You miss out on the extra action surge but have lots of ability to hold the range open, get some nasty sneak attacks to go with your SCAG cantrip War Magic, and get to play with Panache for awesome single-target crowd control that bypasses legendary resistance and is fully compatible with Cunning Action (Hide), because the target doesn't need to be able to see you to be taunted; hearing is sufficient.

Another fun combo is EK 11, Rogue 2, Necromancer 7. You're a 10th level caster with up to 4th level spells. The point of this build is to exploit three things: the way skeleton archer damage scales with proficiency bonus, the synergy between Greater Invisibility (or Fog Cloud/etc.) and Cunning Action (Hide), and Eldritch Strike + Bestow Curse V. Even before you factor in the skeletons, your DPR is almost as good as a real EK 20, and your spell list isn't quite so narrowly-focused on abjuration/evocation: you have more room for defensive spells like Blink/Blur and rituals like Find Familiar. If you invest in the Skulker feat you can do fun things like snuff out all the torches and then Vampiric Touch + Cunning Action (Hide) every round from enemies relying on darkvision, since darkvision only replicates dim light and Skulker lets you still hide in dim light. In short, you wind up with a character who can be either the anvil (when he's spending all his spell slots on a huge skeleton army of longbowmen) or the hammer (when skeletons aren't feasible and he spends his slots on personal enhancement and mobility).

Honorable mention goes to EK 8/Warlock 2/Swashbuckler 10 for highest personal DPR, but I don't like it all that much because: (1) it's MAD with the extra Charisma dependency, (2) the damage output isn't all that much higher than a regular EK 20, (3) it feels gimmicky to me. The damage ends up being worse than the Necromancer variant against most enemies, especially in a party that has some way to generate advantage at range (e.g. someone casting Conjure Animals to summon constrictor snakes to restrain enemies).

Final observation: for a Mobile Sharpshooter EK 8+, the best (most fun, IMO) use of War Magic is to toss a net (PHB 148) from 10' range over an enemy, restraining them so that you get advantage on your subsequent Booming Blade cantrip attack on them, then back up either 35' or just 5' afterward (depending on terrain and tactical considerations). If you back up 5', then is at least a chance the enemy could still attack you on his turn (if he has Multiattack with a slashing weapon, he could spend one attack getting free and the other attack(s) on you) but even then he takes Booming Blade damage for moving. (BTW, I hate the name Booming Blade and at my table it is False Fetters: conjured shackles made of air which explode concussively if stretched too far.)

 

[TwoSix]

Exactly this. I'm looking at the class from a purely mechanical, optimization perspective, and care nothing for "characters". Can you still help me?

And boom goes the dynamite.

 

[krakistophales]

You've got a few options. If you want to keep your DPR up, a Rogue multiclass works pretty well, e.g. Sharpshooter EK 11/Swashbuckler 9. (Whether you go EK first or Swashbuckler first will vary based on what playstyle you prefer.) That gives you at-will ranged damage about as good as a regular Sharpshooter EK 20, possibly better against high-AC foes. You miss out on the extra action surge but have lots of ability to hold the range open, get some nasty sneak attacks to go with your SCAG cantrip War Magic, and get to play with Panache for awesome single-target crowd control that bypasses legendary resistance and is fully compatible with Cunning Action (Hide), because the target doesn't need to be able to see you to be taunted; hearing is sufficient.

Another fun combo is EK 11, Rogue 2, Necromancer 7. You're a 10th level caster with up to 4th level spells. The point of this build is to exploit three things: the way skeleton archer damage scales with proficiency bonus, the synergy between Greater Invisibility (or Fog Cloud/etc.) and Cunning Action (Hide), and Eldritch Strike + Bestow Curse V. Even before you factor in the skeletons, your DPR is almost as good as a real EK 20, and your spell list isn't quite so narrowly-focused on abjuration/evocation: you have more room for defensive spells like Blink/Blur and rituals like Find Familiar. If you invest in the Skulker feat you can do fun things like snuff out all the torches and then Vampiric Touch + Cunning Action (Hide) every round from enemies relying on darkvision, since darkvision only replicates dim light and Skulker lets you still hide in dim light. In short, you wind up with a character who can be either the anvil (when he's spending all his spell slots on a huge skeleton army of longbowmen) or the hammer (when skeletons aren't feasible and he spends his slots on personal enhancement and mobility).

Honorable mention goes to EK 8/Warlock 2/Swashbuckler 10 for highest personal DPR, but I don't like it all that much because: (1) it's MAD with the extra Charisma dependency, (2) the damage output isn't all that much higher than a regular EK 20, (3) it feels gimmicky to me. The damage ends up being worse than the Necromancer variant against most enemies, especially in a party that has some way to generate advantage at range (e.g. someone casting Conjure Animals to summon constrictor snakes to restrain enemies).

Final observation: for a Mobile Sharpshooter EK 8+, the best (most fun, IMO) use of War Magic is to toss a net (PHB 148) from 10' range over an enemy, restraining them so that you get advantage on your subsequent Booming Blade cantrip attack on them, then back up either 35' or just 5' afterward (depending on terrain and tactical considerations). If you back up 5', then is at least a chance the enemy could still attack you on his turn (if he has Multiattack with a slashing weapon, he could spend one attack getting free and the other attack(s) on you) but even then he takes Booming Blade damage for moving. (BTW, I hate the name Booming Blade and at my table it is False Fetters: conjured shackles made of air which explode concussively if stretched too far.)

What if you wanted to do a pretty even mix of blasting and melee? Would EK 10/wizard 10 be too gimpy?