I have been an avid player of elven characters since 1st edition. As such, many of my elves used longswords and I'm not afraid to say it was not only because of their racial tendencies but also because the weapon always had some niche that made it a preferable one-handed weapon. Whether it was the 1d12 large damage of 1st and 2nd, or the 19-20 crit range for a 1d8 weapon of 3rd, or the +3 proficiency bonus of 4th there has always been something that made the longsword shine. In 5th edition, the choice to use a longsword is purely aesthetic. As a matter of fact, in my opinion it may be the worst of the 1d8 versatile (1d10) weapons. The warhammer weighs less and deals bludgeoning damage, which is an advantage against skeletons and certain oozes. The battleaxe weighs a little more buts costs 5gp less to buy. The only positive to the longsword is that it weighs slightly less than the battleaxe. The fact that it no longer has any mechanical advantage strikes me as odd.
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D&D 5E The fall from grace of the longsword
- Thread starter Mondas711
- Start date
trentonjoe
Explorer
I keep waiting for more feats to support specific weapon groups. Something similar to polearm master.
It's only a matter of time before we see:
Blade Master
Advanatge on Disarm attempts when using a one handed bladed weapon and the ability to the ability to use some of your profiency bonus to hit as parry reaction.
Net Master
Attacks with a bolas or net are made with advanatge and cause a DEX saving throw or be restrained.
It's only a matter of time until the big wigs in Seatle (or a small wig some place else) figures out how to balance them out.
Until then, the Long Sword isn't special anymore.
It's only a matter of time before we see:
Blade Master
Advanatge on Disarm attempts when using a one handed bladed weapon and the ability to the ability to use some of your profiency bonus to hit as parry reaction.
Net Master
Attacks with a bolas or net are made with advanatge and cause a DEX saving throw or be restrained.
It's only a matter of time until the big wigs in Seatle (or a small wig some place else) figures out how to balance them out.
Until then, the Long Sword isn't special anymore.
Can't argue with the facts, you are right.
The only mechanical advantage I can see, is in many classic adventures have magical longswords in them to find, many DM's consider the longsword the most common weapon so plenty of random item charts will highlight them, and there are a few named magic swords in the dmg that are longsword only sun blades, sword of answering, moonblades, and sword of Kas.
I came up with a house rule to once again make elves want to use long swords, part of elven weapon training is the ability to treat the longsword as a finesse weapon or a versatile weapon just not both at the same time.
The only mechanical advantage I can see, is in many classic adventures have magical longswords in them to find, many DM's consider the longsword the most common weapon so plenty of random item charts will highlight them, and there are a few named magic swords in the dmg that are longsword only sun blades, sword of answering, moonblades, and sword of Kas.
I came up with a house rule to once again make elves want to use long swords, part of elven weapon training is the ability to treat the longsword as a finesse weapon or a versatile weapon just not both at the same time.
Eh... the weight of the warhammer and the cheaper price of the battleaxe are such minor benefits in my experience (I see very few games where encumbrance is calculated and starting gold is at such a premium that the 5GP difference would actually affect purchasing decisions) that balancing out the weapons as purely an aesthetic choice is probably due.
As far as the reduction of elves using longswords in 5E... it really comes down to that niggling +1 bonus to hit and damage you get by players choosing to steer into the elves' +2 DEX racial feature inspiring them to go DEX-based rather than STR-based more often... and thus choose the rapier instead. So I can understand perhaps the "loss" of more longsword-focused elves in 5E and the chagrin that could cause amongst the playerbase... but at the same time I also recognize that both weapons do 1d8 damage, so what *really* is the difference here, other than our own preconceived visuals of what the weapons look like? Yeah, when we see the term 'rapier' our minds immediately go to fencing swords, whereas the term 'longsword' evokes the wider blade weapon of medieval combat. But who's to say that for elven culture... that due to the size, weight, and physicality of elves in comparison to humans, that a longsword an elf would design might actually look and feel more like a rapier in the hands of a human? So that the weapon in the Equipment chart that has that Finesse property (and thus perhaps more likely to be picked up by an elf) is actually *to them*, a longsword. And that what a human would call a longsword perhaps might be considered a 'broadsword' to an elf (due to how wide the blade was.)
Who's to say? I mean, it all comes down really to arbitrary words selected to be used on the Equipment chart to describe all manner of weapon, regardless of how accurate those words actually are. So since there's no damage difference between them... why not consider the human rapier to be an elven longsword in your own mind? As I've been generating a bladesinger type of elf character for a potential campaign... this is exactly the kind of thing I've been wrestling with. And I finally came to the conclusion that 1d8 is 1d8, so who cares the word that the book uses as a weapon identifier? If my bladesinger's blade is a "rapier-like" longsword (because I end up choosing to finesse)... then so be it. The character is still going to be all-focused on a bladed weapon, regardless of the name used to describe it.
As far as the reduction of elves using longswords in 5E... it really comes down to that niggling +1 bonus to hit and damage you get by players choosing to steer into the elves' +2 DEX racial feature inspiring them to go DEX-based rather than STR-based more often... and thus choose the rapier instead. So I can understand perhaps the "loss" of more longsword-focused elves in 5E and the chagrin that could cause amongst the playerbase... but at the same time I also recognize that both weapons do 1d8 damage, so what *really* is the difference here, other than our own preconceived visuals of what the weapons look like? Yeah, when we see the term 'rapier' our minds immediately go to fencing swords, whereas the term 'longsword' evokes the wider blade weapon of medieval combat. But who's to say that for elven culture... that due to the size, weight, and physicality of elves in comparison to humans, that a longsword an elf would design might actually look and feel more like a rapier in the hands of a human? So that the weapon in the Equipment chart that has that Finesse property (and thus perhaps more likely to be picked up by an elf) is actually *to them*, a longsword. And that what a human would call a longsword perhaps might be considered a 'broadsword' to an elf (due to how wide the blade was.)
Who's to say? I mean, it all comes down really to arbitrary words selected to be used on the Equipment chart to describe all manner of weapon, regardless of how accurate those words actually are. So since there's no damage difference between them... why not consider the human rapier to be an elven longsword in your own mind? As I've been generating a bladesinger type of elf character for a potential campaign... this is exactly the kind of thing I've been wrestling with. And I finally came to the conclusion that 1d8 is 1d8, so who cares the word that the book uses as a weapon identifier? If my bladesinger's blade is a "rapier-like" longsword (because I end up choosing to finesse)... then so be it. The character is still going to be all-focused on a bladed weapon, regardless of the name used to describe it.
jamesmanhattan
Explorer
I'll just put this here because it's relevant and awesome!
NYTimes video article on longsword fighting clubs
http://www.nytimes.com/video/sports/100000003040466/inside-the-world-of-longsword-fighting.html
NYTimes video article on longsword fighting clubs
http://www.nytimes.com/video/sports/100000003040466/inside-the-world-of-longsword-fighting.html
trentonjoe
Explorer
I just watched thinking it was going to be people with longswords fighting people with clubs....
To be fair, Chain mail, OD&D supplements, and AD&D all have the Weapon vs. Armor Class Type table. I wasn't as useful in AD&D because of the introduction of "weird" armor types in-beween None, Leather, Chain, and Plate but it did make a point of hammer on the fact that Longswords are rubbish against Plate Armor compared to an Ax, Mace, Warhammer, or Flail. (Heck they -should- have been rubbish against Chain Mail too).
So they did try to adjust things there for realism, but the "Katanas [sic] Longswords can cut through ANYTHING" trope is kind of embedded into D&D. I'm just happy they didn't make it an unconditionally superior weapon in this edition.
- Marty Lund
Depending on the campaign, a semi-mechanical advantage might be that longswords are more likely to be enchanted than other one-handed weapons. If your DM is rolling random loot, this is definitely the case.
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