D&D 5E The Fighter Problem

[Corwin]

Played a fighter recently, just finishing a campaign at 14th level. Every single time, I took a feat (that would be 5 times for those keeping score at home). Never once chose the ASI option. Which gave me a lot of control over the amount of "utility" I desired. As for "agency" and "identity", I did just fine. Of course, that's largely because I put those squarely on the shoulders of the people at the table. Not the book. So there's that.

 

[lowkey13]

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[cmad1977]

The fighter problem:
Is nonexistent,


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[Sacrosanct]

The fighter problem:
Is nonexistent,


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It's non existent from a game design standpoint. It is existent from an individual game table standpoint. Which is true about most things, I'd wager.

 

[lowkey13]

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[cmad1977]

I keep staring at this.

A haiku cut short?
Some type of e e cummings free verse experiment?
A zen koan?

A true artist leaves the interpretation of their work up to his audience.


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[Warpiglet]

A true artist leaves the interpretation of their work up to his audience.


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Such wisdom! Epic!

 

[lowkey13]

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[Mistwell]

My answer to this issue is pretty simple: If you're playing with feats, the Fighter gets more feats than all those other classes you mention.

[MENTION=6716779]Zardnaar[/MENTION] is well aware of how powerful some feats can be. The fighter comes on-line too late? He's getting DOUBLE the number of feats than Paladin, Ranger and Barbarian at 6th level.

If Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, and Sharpshooter are so darn powerful when it comes to "fighting" ability, then the Fighter gets those faster than those other classes. If the Sentinel feat or the Shield Master feat (for grappling) is an effective means of playing the Battlefield Control or Defender role, then the fighter can get there faster than those other classes. And if fighter-types have a weakness in Wisdom checks, then the Fighter can get to the Resilient feat quicker than those other classes.

Feats are more powerful than most class abilities, and fighters get there faster.

Now if I were in charge of adding things to the game, I'd add some more Fighting Styles unique to fighters. Add in a shove as a bonus action as a Fighting Style. Add an extra attack if you drop a foe as a Fighting Style. Add a retaliatory attack as a reaction as a Fighting Style. You can add those Fighting Styles without errata, and it would help the class for sure.

 

[Mistwell]

I've noticed a number of these problems. For me the big issues with the fighter are as follows.

1. From levels 1-10 the fighters combat capabilities are no better than other warrior classes. In fact, it is often worse. Blackguard paladins get charisma to damage and smites. Rangers get hunters mark and other +dX damage features. Barbarian has rages and reckless attack. Hell, even the warlock can deal comparable damage with hex + their new smites. The fighter has action surge, which does give great burst potential, but doesn't match the round by round damage capability of the other classes from levels 1 to 10.

The fighter gets an extra feat in those early levels, a powerful ability you're not accounting for in this analysis.

2. The fighter has nothing truly unique. Action surge provides more of something everyone can already do. Battle master maneuvers all produce effects that are outclassed by most cantrips. As far as combat utility or battlefield control goes, the fighter doesn't provide more than any other warrior class. On the other hand paladin smites get more and more powerful with level. Barbarian rage makes them dramatically more tanks than any other class. Rangers have unique spells only they can learn. Rogues have cunning action. Even multiple attacks aren't truly unique. They are merely a means to provide fighters with additional damage, they don't give the fighter new functionality. Not to mention that warlocks get the same number with eldritch blast (and get their 4th attack 3 levels earlier).

The fighter is uniquely versatile for all types of tactics due to their extra feats over all those other classes. For example, if you want battlefield control, the fighter can have the Sentinel feat or the Shield Master feat (for grappling) far easier than any of those other classes. And yes, it's a unique amount of versatility that you can get to those abilities far faster than any other class.

3. The fighter gives up all of his non combat utility in order to be "the best" at combat. Other classes all have more non combat utility. The fighter has no class features devoted to any pillar other than combat. That is terrible design given that from levels 1-10 the other classes are slightly better than the fighter in combat and that from levels 11-20 those classes are only slightly worse in combat.

The fighter gets more feats than any other class, which can easily be devoted to non-combat feats.

4. The fighter doesn't really come into its own until 14th level and above. At level 14 it has its 3rd attack and its second bonus feat. The problem here is that most games don't get to level 10+, let alone 14+, so for most games the fighter will not have the features that people give praise to the fighter design in 5e (more attacks than everyone and 2 extra feats).

The fighter gets their first bonus feat at level 6. In my opinion, that's when they come into their own. Being able to have a bonus extra attack each round, or drop -5 from the attack to add +10 to the damage, or utilize battlefield control feats early, is all "coming into their own".

I strongly get the impression that because feats are left open to the choice of the player rather than being fixed abilities, they're often overlooked as if they're just the same stuff other classes get. They're not. Sure, other classes can get both feats, but not as many.