The First Task: AoOs

[Mulkhoran]

This is a plea for assistance.

I'm playing with a new group at the moment, and one of the players, who's more conversant than the rules than the rest, is currently undergoing what I call The First Task:


The First Task: Answer this question:
"Why, if you're in melee with someone, and you just move away from them, they don't get an AoO, but if you move away and then cast a spell 30' away, they get an AoO when you move? How can something you're *going* to do affect you at the start of the move?"

Now, I personally can think of some nasty consequences involving spellcasters if you change this, but my memory for the impetus underlying the movement/AoO rules is fuzzy.

So help me remember. Why did they build this this way? *I* know it makes sense, but I want to be able to explain it to this guy in rational terms other than: "It's a good rule for combat balance. It makes sense."

Many starving kittens await your aid. Thank You.

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I think it's balance issuses. All you do is move, you take you action to avoid the AoO. However, if you want to do something else you take a chance on getting hit.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

It is all about how much time and carew you take in moving away. If you back off slowly for a bit, waiting for an opening, that takes some time. Therefore you can't cast a spell. If you just walk away (leaving time to cast a spell) then you let your guard down so they can whack you.

 

[Gunslinger]

Or you could just take a 5 ft step and then blast him, or cast defensively if you just don't feel like moving.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

I think other d20 games made this a lot more clear by calling it the "withdrawal" action. Basically, you wait for an opening, and then move. That takes longer than just recklessly moving away. You could also say that the caster is distracted by fumbling around for components and trying to remember the right words to the spell, and thus leaves himself more vulnerable to AoO's as he moves away.

 

[Deset Gled]

Consider, for example, the fact that a person can move four times their move rate (or 5 times, with the run feet) in one round using a run action. Then, consider that with a double movement, they only move at half that rate. Assuming that both actions take the same amount of time to complete, it becomes obvious that a character taking a double move is spending a significant amount of time doing something besides moving. That something extra is spent looking for opportunities, being generally more defensive, moving generally slower, etc.

The example above does not directly fit the question presented, but the same thinking applies. When a character does a move action along with another (standard) action, a majority of what they are focusing on is the standard action, not the move action associated with it. Thus, they have to move quicker and more recklessly in order to act out the rest of the action.


It may be more confusing than helpful, but here's an (incomplete) idea of how I view some of the action options in rounds. Consider an action to be a space along time. Visually:

XXXXXXXXXXXX
Action

Next, consider a move equivalent action to take up 1/3 of the characters round, and a standard (or partial) action to take up 2/3. A full round action takes up about 3/4 of the round. A 5 foot step would take up 1/6 or a round. Things that are free actions don't take up any time, as they are considered to be happening at the same time a different action is taking place (like pulling a sword out of a sheath while you walk towards an enemy). Visually:

A move followed by a standard action:
XXXX|XXXXXXXX
Move|standard action


A full attack followed by a 5 foot step:
XXXXXXXXX|XX|X
Full Attack|5' Step|Leftover time

A double move:
XXXX|XXXX|XXXX
Move|Move|Leftover time

The real significance of this visualization is that it shows that when you do a double move or a 5 foot step, there's some time in the round that isn't directly accounted for with the actions stated. This extra time is why the double move and 5 foot step don't draw attacks of opportunity; the character takes time to pay attention and wait for an opportunity to do their move rather than move recklessly and give others that opportunity.

I hope this helps clarify the abstractness of rounds and actions a bit.

 

[Bonedagger]

<dobble post>

 

[Bonedagger]

This is a plea for assistance.

I'm playing with a new group at the moment, and one of the players, who's more conversant than the rules than the rest, is currently undergoing what I call The First Task:


The First Task: Answer this question:
"Why, if you're in melee with someone, and you just move away from them, they don't get an AoO, but if you move away and then cast a spell 30' away, they get an AoO when you move? How can something you're *going* to do affect you at the start of the move?"

To simplify what other have said.

Moving 30 ft within 6 sec can be done more safe than....

Moving 30 ft and having to do a standard action within 6 sec.


You don't have to rush things but then you are in gametherms waiting for the next round.

 

[Caliber]

Pretty much all of the answers here are correct, but let me also point out that you aren't provoking AoO because you moved 30' and then cast. All of the actions on your turn are supposed to be happening more or less simultaneously.

So when you move and cast you are fumbling for components and recalling arcane words into your mind. Like what Meepo said, all of this causes you not to watch your enemy as much and provoke an Attack of Opportunity.

 

[Li Shenron]

So help me remember. Why did they build this this way? *I* know it makes sense, but I want to be able to explain it to this guy in rational terms other than: "It's a good rule for combat balance. It makes sense."

Maybe you can tell him that the whole combat system is based on turns for playability reasons, but the characters are fighting continuously. So, there's not much trying to think "I move then cast, all BEFORE his actions", because the foe is really acting MEANWHILE. This way, all the TURN is to be seen as a whole action, even if composed of a move+STaction, and actually also consecutive turns should always be thought as continuous.