The gish and the hex blade, what am I missing?

[DEFCON 1]

Instead, the “best” use of the Hexblade becomes a dip, to give the curse, access to the shield spell and eldritch blast, shield and armor and especially that sweet cha-bonus to fighting, to *another class* (paladin and bard college of sword in particular). And that really bothers me :/

Am I wrong here? Did I miss mid-high level features of the hexblade that really make a difference? Is there an easy solution to fix the Hexblade?

Absolutely. The easiest solution is to accept that if you are playing a Hexblade it is because you wish to play the flavor of being a Warlock Hexblade.

Now, if what you really wish is to have the "best game mechanics available" to play a warrior + mage... then it doesn't matter what the flavor is. Take 1 level of hexblade mechanics, 19 levels of paladin mechanics, and then layer on top of it whatever flavor you'd like. If you want to call yourself a "warlock" even though you only have 1 game mechanic level of warlock features... that's fine! It doesn't matter one way or the other. If it matters that much... just go onto Homebrewery and write up a "Class write-up" for the warlock that lists what you get at each level using the mechanics of 1 dip in hexblade and 19 in paladin, come up with new names for the abilities you are using the mechanics for but not the fluff (so 'Lay On Hands' becomes 'Shadow Infusion' for example), then call it whatever class name you wish. Print it up, and you now have the class you wanted with the mechanics you wanted, with whatever fluff you wanted for it.

The whole point of having "classes" in the first place is to have generic and baseline stories that people can use as a shorthand to distinguish who they are for those players who don't wish to put in the time to "create" from whole cloth what they want. But at the end of the day, everything's just random names and fluff that are layered on top of generic game mechanics. The actual mechanics and math have no story. Any story that comes from a mechanic is only that way because we all collectively agree to accept that story for that mechanic. But those stories and names can be added to, changed, removed or whatever we wish.

So there's nothing wrong with using the game mechanics of a 19 paladin / 1 warlock hexblade and calling it strictly a "Hexblade"... just because you happen to think those particular game mechanics would be more fun to play in that combination and you like the story, background, and history of "the Hexblade". Don't feel guilty about it, and don't think you're having to "cheat" the system by creating this "new" build to get what you want. You want certain game mechanics, *and* you want your character to have a particular story? Take 'em both, wipe and re-write, and then go to town.

 

[Blue]

2: She uses her fighting to enhance her magic
...
#2 I don’t know how that works… I guess you could say that the sturdier frame of the gish (vs, say, a wizard) means that less spells have to be devoted to defence (no need to cast mage armor for example) and she can therefore focus solely on offensive and utility magic? You can’t sword a better fireball.

The Eldritch Knight has a bit of this with Eldritch Strike, where hitting with your weapon imposes disadvantage on saves vs. your spells.

And if you squint the right way, the Green-Flame Blade and Booming Blade cantrips are like this, using weapon attack to deliver spells instead of your spellcasting ability score. The various Smite spells the Paladin (mostly) gets do the same.

But outside that, 5e doesn't really support #2 mechanically. It's been about #1 as you say, using magic to fight better.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think single class Hexblades balance pretty well compared with, say, a hexblade 1/blade. However, hexblade/blade is very much better than a single class blade. I would say it's the blade that is broken.

As with all gish, some are more fighty and some are more casty, and they all differ in spell selections. And lets not forget that a standard cleric is, and always has been, gish.

3: comments:

First, do you mean broken as in OP or broken as it "doesn't work "?

Second, is blade = college of swords?

Third, assuming that it is college of swords... I think that the hex blade single class pales in front of the hexblade 1/college of swords rest. 1 level of hexblade is a huge boon to the college of swords bard, and with the other features the college offers, it becomes a far superior warrior, skill monkey *and * the spellcasting is arguably just as good.

 

[TwoSix]

So there's nothing wrong with using the game mechanics of a 19 paladin / 1 warlock hexblade and calling it strictly a "Hexblade"... just because you happen to think those particular game mechanics would be more fun to play in that combination and you like the story, background, and history of "the Hexblade". Don't feel guilty about it, and don't think you're having to "cheat" the system by creating this "new" build to get what you want. You want certain game mechanics, *and* you want your character to have a particular story? Take 'em both, wipe and re-write, and then go to town.

< applause >

 

[Krachek]

Give shield spell to a class with limited spell slots number is not very wise.

A gish is fun when he can use multiple lesser spells to help combat.
Warlock is the big spell slot guy.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you want a good Gish you need s dedicated class like the paladin and ranger. WotC can't seem to make it work because the primary caster Gish are still primary casters the 1/3rd casters barely have any spells.

Fighter 1/warlock xyz works.

 

[Gadget]

I've always seen the Hexblade as a "patch" on the Warlock class that has innately what the class (or sub-classes) should have had out of the gate. The curse ability seems to be a nod to those who said the Hex spell was a class ability masquerading as spell; the increased martial capacity is an acknowledgement that the pact of the blade should have been granted least some of those features (or some of the martial invocations it has access to) out of the gate. It's not surprising that the class is problematic.

 

[Satyrn]

So there's nothing wrong with using the game mechanics of a 19 paladin / 1 warlock hexblade and calling it strictly a "Hexblade"... just because you happen to think those particular game mechanics would be more fun to play in that combination and you like the story, background, and history of "the Hexblade". Don't feel guilty about it, and don't think you're having to "cheat" the system by creating this "new" build to get what you want. You want certain game mechanics, *and* you want your character to have a particular story? Take 'em both, wipe and re-write, and then go to town.

< applause >

< applau - What was Jennifer Garner thinking about? >

 

[chunkosauruswrex]

I think honestly gishing is done best by either a paladin, or a Stone sorcerer with quicken and twin.

 

[Ancalagon]

If you want a good Gish you need s dedicated class like the paladin and ranger. WotC can't seem to make it work because the primary caster Gish are still primary casters the 1/3rd casters barely have any spells.

Fighter 1/warlock xyz works.

If I was going to convert a pathfinder magus (THE gish class) to 5e via a custom class, I would start with the paladin chassis, reduce hp to d8 and give cantrips... it needs more than that clearly , but that would be the foundation.

Without a custom class? College of sword/hexblade multiclass is where it's at imo.