The gods didn't go epic!

[cignus_pfaccari]

Gawds aren't powergamers.

Yes, they are. How do you think they became gods in the first place?

Seriously, converting deities to use epic-level rules isn't too hard. For Kord, say, it makes sense to switch out most of his fighter levels to barbarian, and adjust stats accordingly.

Brad

 

[Henry]

Personally, I think he would fit better as a Bbn40 than a Ftr40.

If you don't like the gods as their stats are now, why don't you restat them? I've seen others do the same, and I've even done some of my own. One statting I saw of Kord had him as a Legendary Dreadnought.

Also, there really isn't that much difference between a Ftr40 and a Bbn40, except for the number of extra feats. Couple that with the idea that there are only so many feats that will ever show up in play on an NPC, and what you've got is an NPC that only YOU know or care how powerful he is on the back end. the vast majority of campaigns never go above level 20, and an even slimmer margin go above level 30. So in the end, how powerful Kord is (as an example) is irrelevant to most players, and doubtfully something WotC would want to spend money on.

Not to say it isn't worth doing on a personal note, of course...

 

[Patlin]

Gods should not have stats. Dieties and Demigods was on my "do not buy" list regardless of what stats were assigned.

I kind of like the treatment of gods in the Eberron campaign setting. Distant.

 

[Fieari]

So when demons and devils consipire to invade the celestial planes to overthrow the goods of goodness and justice, I shouldn't have rules? When Pelor and Hextor duke it out in the heavenlies (with far reaching ramifications on the Prime Material Plane) I can't determine who would win? The rules shouldn't determine whether your ancient hero can steal the secret of fire from the gods? David Edding's Belgarion can't take up the Sword of Riva and smite Torak, nor can Torak be maimed by Aldur's stone? Robert Jordan's Rand al'Thor will never be able to defeat the Dark One, nor could the Dark One have been sealed away in the previous age, or sealed away before that either? In Eternal Darkness, Ulyaoth, Chattur'gha, Xel'lotath, and Mantorok can't contend with each other, and no mortal would be able to have any influence on such a contest anyway?

Stories and myths are full of tales of mortals contending with gods, and gods contending with gods. Why should my D&D game be any different if I want that sort of thing? I'm not saying that Deities should show up on random encounter tables for heroes to slay for experience, but that isn't the only purpose to have stats either. The player may NEVER have the power, in and of themselves, to contend with ANY god, and that's fine. But what about other gods? What about quests to help out your god, to give HIM(/HER) more power so that he/she can defeat the evil one?

I'll agree that I'm not fond of Deities and Demigods either, but for a completely different reason... I just don't think it does a good enough job, which is why I'm looking foreward to the Immortal's Handbook. That should cover all my needs.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Do you really need stats for offstage events?

In any case, whether gods have stats is something that should remain up to the DM. Some people want 'em, and others don't. It's a question of what books would be most useful. IMHO, DDG would have been a lot more useful to a lot more people if it had been closer in style to The Divine and the Defeated, the 2e FR gods books, or the 2e Monster Mythology. Even if a DM wants stats for gods, it seems a much more useful effort to provide the tools for building them, provide a sample deity or pantheon, and devote the rest of the work to the elements I mentioned earlier. Do we really need stats for the GH, Greek, Egyptian, Norse, etc etc etc pantheons instead of some meat about how to design religions, creeds, temples, etc?

 

[rkanodia]

Do you really need stats for offstage events?

...

Do we really need stats for the GH, Greek, Egyptian, Norse, etc etc etc pantheons instead of some meat about how to design religions, creeds, temples, etc?

OMG AN00BIS CUD 7074lly r0x0r +h0r'z b0x0rz and j00 kn0w i7!

 

[jarlaxlecq]

I think they need to re-release deites but not to give them boosted states, that what i hated about DD in the first place, they should be talking less about the gods and more about the religeon that surrounds the god. Talk about their temples and retuals instead of what their damage reduction is. Just my 2 cents

 

[jarlaxlecq]

Robert Jordan's Rand al'Thor will never be able to defeat the Dark One, nor could the Dark One have been sealed away in the previous age, or sealed away before that either?

Not at the rate Robert Jordan's writing the story. my god book 10 and no end in sight

 

[Patlin]

So when demons and devils consipire to invade the celestial planes to overthrow the goods of goodness and justice, I shouldn't have rules? When Pelor and Hextor duke it out in the heavenlies (with far reaching ramifications on the Prime Material Plane) I can't determine who would win? The rules shouldn't determine whether your ancient hero can steal the secret of fire from the gods? David Edding's Belgarion can't take up the Sword of Riva and smite Torak, nor can Torak be maimed by Aldur's stone? Robert Jordan's Rand al'Thor will never be able to defeat the Dark One, nor could the Dark One have been sealed away in the previous age, or sealed away before that either? In Eternal Darkness, Ulyaoth, Chattur'gha, Xel'lotath, and Mantorok can't contend with each other, and no mortal would be able to have any influence on such a contest anyway?

Stories and myths are full of tales of mortals contending with gods, and gods contending with gods. Why should my D&D game be any different if I want that sort of thing? I'm not saying that Deities should show up on random encounter tables for heroes to slay for experience, but that isn't the only purpose to have stats either. The player may NEVER have the power, in and of themselves, to contend with ANY god, and that's fine. But what about other gods? What about quests to help out your god, to give HIM(/HER) more power so that he/she can defeat the evil one?

I'll agree that I'm not fond of Deities and Demigods either, but for a completely different reason... I just don't think it does a good enough job, which is why I'm looking foreward to the Immortal's Handbook. That should cover all my needs.

While I enjoy many of the stories you've referenced, I prefer to play on a more down to earth level. It's strictly an aesthetic judgment, and I didn't mean to suggest it was in any way wrong for you to disagree or feel differently. I think figures like Hextor are more interesting as vast cosmic forces than as incarnate individuals. Certainly the PCs should fight Hextor, but they ought to do it by fighting his minions.

In the very unusual campaign in which you are building up to fighting a god, such as in the Belgariad, I don't think a single set of canned rules are all that helpfull. And even in that story, vast cosmic forces were intentionally levelling the playing field to make the battle possible. Better to craft the diety to fit the plot, if that's the whole point of the campaign.

 

[Treebore]

My view is that they are the stats of the gods avatar. In my game I am of the opinion that if you are a mortal and you fight a god, your character is dead. No need to play it out. Gods are a power level all their own. Mortals need not apply.