The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Stormtalon]

Isn't the rule for minions though that they can only be damaged if "hit"? If so, then if an attack roll is not made... they can't die from it. I haven't read all the rules, but I think that the excerpt covered that...

The specific rule is that minions take no damage from an attack that misses, which means things that do 1/2 or lesser damage on a miss don't affect them. In order for this rule to come into play, you have to do something that requires an attack roll AND which would still do damage if it misses. Things that don't require an attack roll to do damage, such as a dragon's fire aura or that fighter power, for example, will still kill them like no tomorrow.

 

[Thasmodious]

Minion entries say they never take damage on a miss. Not "an attack roll is required to damage a minion". So, if you had an aura that did automatic damage, I think it would affect, and kill, minions.

Also, since when is the heavily armored archer a "fairly basic concept"? "Hi, I depend on range to kill things. So naturally, I enshroud myself in heavy metal armor that impedes my mobility."

 

[abyssaldeath]

Do minions exist in game? If so they should be targets of choice. If not, why are they in the game system if they are not in the game?

Yes minions exist, but the DM controls the game. So if the players are fight minions 20 levels higher then they are then the issue is with the DM not the minion mechanics. No one is forcing you to even use minions, even level appropriate ones. So I will once again ask, why would any DM in thier right mind let a level 5 fighter fight a epic tier minion?

 

[Andor]

Yes minions exist, but the DM controls the game. So if the players are fight minions 20 levels higher then they are then the issue is with the DM not the minion mechanics. No one is forcing you to even use minions, even level appropriate ones. So I will once again ask, why would any DM in thier right mind let a level 5 fighter fight a epic tier minion?

*shrug* Becuase he's the same Monty Haul GM who's been handing out artifacts to 1st level parties since the days of the boxed set?

I'm not condoneing the practice btw.

 

[brianm]

So can't a heroic army of 5th level soldiers fighting an epic group of monsters?

Nope!

Minions exist only relative to their opponents. In the same way that +1 swords don't exist for epic level PCs, epic level minions don't exist for heroic level characters.

- Brian

 

[almagest]

Not sure why fighting epic minions at heroic levels is even mentioned. No sane DM would EVER run this kind of encounter. Even if he did, there's still a good chance of a TPK. Minions only have 1 hp, but their other stats are pretty consistent with other monsters of their level. And if a DM throws only 1 minion at a party, it's not that much xp. For example, the highest level core minion is lvl. 26. 2,250 xp for the group. In contrast, a level 9 solo encounter gives 2000 xp for the group. That's the highest "recommended" challenge for a group of 5th level. Sure, the minion is going to be easier to kill, but that just leads back to my first point.

And seriously. Wait until you've read the books before you make wild accusations.

 

[brehobit]

On Minions

Hi all,
My point about the level 5 ability taking out the level 26 minion was that the ability allows him to kill something (automatically) that he really shouldn't be able to. I've been told there is a similar level 1 warlock power (though it only does auto damage to one thing?)

Some of the proposed encounters in the MM seem to have some pretty powerful minions in them compared to the non-minions. So auto-killing _any_ minion at 1st (or 5th) level can be pretty big.

Not a huge deal, and something the DM can handle, but still odd that there exists a 5th level power that will cut through baddies that are about the same power level as a level 15 solo... Certainly the DM can (easily) deal with it. Just pointing it out as odd.

 

[hong]

It is about as odd as people pointing out that you can build half-fiend vampire beholder barbarians in 3E.

 

[brianm]

Not a huge deal, and something the DM can handle, but still odd that there exists a 5th level power that will cut through baddies that are about the same power level as a level 15 solo... Certainly the DM can (easily) deal with it. Just pointing it out as odd.

It's an artifact of the system. The other option would be to constantly increase the minimum damage the PCs do every round, to the point where having "only" 20 hit points means every time the fighter hits you, you die. Of course, if you do that, what's a boss monster for heroic becomes a minion at epic, and I think they wanted to avoid that sort of thing.

- Brian

 

[Jack99]

It is about as odd as people pointing out that you can build half-fiend vampire beholder barbarians in 3E.

Was it schizophrenic?