The greatest of stars: Wizard

[Jack Colby]

I wouldn't say they are overall "the best", but they are very effective in combat from what I've seen.

 

[theNater]

A focussed rogue hits his foe on a 2+, for 1d6+2d8+8 every round, just with his at wills. At range, that might dip down to hitting on a 3+ for 1d4+2d8+8 every round.

I seem to have missed something. How is the rogue hitting on 2+? Best I can figure a 1st level rogue won't have more than a +11 to hit(+5 dex, +3 prof., +1 rogue weapon talent, +2 combat advantage). The DMG tells me that AC for first level monsters ranges from 13-17, depending on role. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that the rogue will only attack monsters at the bottom of that range.

 

[Scarface6174]

I am currently running a close combat wizard in our campaign. We were told to start al lvl3 and pick a lvl2,3,and 4 magic item per the DMG (I guess).

-Bloodcut armor and Cloak of resistance make a Wizard MUCH more hardy. (-10 all damage and -5 all damage for 1 round respectavly)
--Know you're gonna get hit a lot the next round positioning yourself for thunderwave or another close blast? Use one of the above beauties!
--Don't have Expeditious retreat readied? throw one of these suckers up and take the hits!

-I took toughness and leather armor proff. More HP & surge value and higher AC.

-Shield utility and the Staff impliment work great.

-Took Durability at 4th so now I have more surges per day to get healed & use bloodcut armor.

-take improved inish and act first! This in conjunction with an inspiring warlord makes you have AT LEAST a +6 to inish!

-Use thunderwave AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
--Use thunderwave to position enemies where YOU want them and then AP to use a nasty daily AOE. They moved out of it? THUNDERWAVE THEM BACK IN!
--Remember, most daily bursts last until the end of your next round if it's not a sustain. That's a possible 3[d] to multiple enemies.

But the most important thing to remember is that without other classes and roles, the wizo would still go down quick.

 

[PennStud77]

Good god, have you even played this game at all? Wizards cannot do big damage to single figures consistently, their shtick is basically to kill weenies (aka Minions) in the early rounds of combat. I'm currently playing in three separate campaigns, each with a wizard, and the thing that is most obvious is that the wizard has a very narrow, specific role in the game. No way in heck is he "the best" class, he's got his role like any other.

Honestly, just seeing you type those words makes me 99% sure you have not even played the game and are just dancing around with contextless calculations.

You're missing the fact that the wizard's powers tend to have nothing which consistently just wallops individual characters. The majority of his combat powers are weak area attacks with interesting rider-effects while his non-combat ones are interesting reality-warping effects.

A wizard cannot Evasive Strike to shift out of the way of several attackers and then pound one for 2[W]+stat, force every enemy on the board to get pulled next to him only to wallap each one for a full attack AND mark them until the next turn (Come and Get It), can't heal anyone (the first reason your suggested all-wizard party will be turned to paste in the first few encounters) and simply can't fight toe-to-toe with a "boss" character of any kind for any amount of time.

Seriously, get a few games under your belt and come back here, I guarantee you'll have a different opinion.

And it sounds like what you are really after is doing more damage against a single opponent, which BEGS the question: Why, oh why, did you pick wizard?!? Worse, why did you pick wizard THREE times?!?!? It sounds like you want to be playing a striker and are upset that your wizard is not performing as one.

 

[KarinsDad]

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Don't listen to them. I've played a Wizard for about 30 encounters now and he does rock.

I was in a situation just Saturday. In a room with a bunch of tiny tunnels out of it. Mage Hand a torch down one tunnel and the critters all start screeching. I see them moving around, so I Scorching Blast them down a tunnel (hit some minions and kill them), and retreat behind the rest of the team down a corridor.

Somehow, some of the non-minions figure out where I went, so they tunnel through the wall and I am suddenly partially surrounded by 4 of them with no place to slide. My fellow party members seriously damage one, but they are all still there ready to eat my PC. I Thunderwave, roll terrible and miss all 3 (one was at the wrong angle and not part of the attack). So, I use an Action point, Thunderwave again, kill the wounded one, wound/push one away, miss the third (who was a little to far to OA the Wizard) and get hit by the fourth with an OA as I head to the other side of the party.

6 points of damage instead of getting wasted, even when I rolled terrible (and I could have avoided that damage with Shield, I just thought it wouldn't work on the roll, but it would have).

A 3E 4th level Wizard in that situation where he would have had a hard time casting let alone ruling the situation and would have been crying in his pants. Instead, one dead, one damaged, and the Wizard safely behind the Paladin.


I think that many character concepts rock in 4E, but the Wizard does his fair share (or more) of shining.

 

[LightPhoenix]

And it sounds like what you are really after is doing more damage against a single opponent, which BEGS the question: Why, oh why, did you pick wizard?!? Worse, why did you pick wizard THREE times?!?!? It sounds like you want to be playing a striker and are upset that your wizard is not performing as one.

No, it sounds like a perfectly accurate description of the wizard. I'm playing a wizard as well, and by far and away the time wizards shine is against multiple opponents. If we're fighting single or spread out opponents the wizard is a lot less effective. On the other hand, my wizard (hardly optimized - Halfling w/ 16 Int) easily handles crowds, especially minions. The fighter goes toe to toe with the big guys while I wipe out the lesser ones - which is exactly how the Wizard (and supposedly any controller) is supposed to work in the group.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Hurrah for Scarface6174! You did almost exactly what I was talking about. Now I have a few follow-up questions for you:

1. What race did you pick?

2. As your Wis score must be high for good Thunderwave pinball action, are you going for some sort of War/Control hybrid?

3. How often did you feel the need to back off behind the tanks?

4. Do you think the concept would have worked as well if you had started at level 1?

5. Do you think your concept "plays" more fun than a back-ranks Wizard?

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Oh, one more question for Scarface6174:

What did your front line usually end up looking like? Were you usually flanked by two other characters, or did you spread out a bit to allow flanking by the other PCs?

 

[Rashak Mani]

As a Wizard... I think its a great class. It fills its role and is much more flexible than some classes... but the best ?

Fighters seems much stronger. Paladins seems like a lot of fun. Halfling Rogues seems to rock too.

Wizard do shine and a lot in their main role... minion control e destruction. Also you depend on terrain and your group too keep up continuous use of area attacks. The first three rounds of combat are a Wizard's finest hour... when he cleans up the landscape.

After that my impression is that its frustratingly hard to get good shots with area spells. Either because a fellow PC is badly positioned or because those nasty kobolds keep shifting into the group's position.

In one combat I did get targeted a lot in melee... and Wizard don't hold up well to AC attacks.

 

[KarinsDad]

The first three rounds of combat are a Wizard's finest hour... when he cleans up the landscape.

After that my impression is that its frustratingly hard to get good shots with area spells. Either because a fellow PC is badly positioned or because those nasty kobolds keep shifting into the group's position.

Kobolds are one of the few creatures that can shift when one of their enemies shifts and not all Kobolds can (only 1 in 6 in the MM can).

For the vast majority of encounters and situations, this is fairly easy to handle. Have a codeword for when the ally is to attack first and then retreat on his turn.

The Wizard (or any PC that can do AoE) yells out "Codeword PC name" (i.e. name of PC that is supposed to move) and then readies an action to fire after the ally moves.

Ally moves, enemies do not (except for a few rare ones that can shift with the ally), Wizard (or other PC) blasts away.

Problem solved.

The one situation where this will not typically work as well is when the Wizard's ally is flanked diagonally. The Wizard's ally has to move more than one square to get out of range of an AoE in this situation. Hence, a Ranger can often do this easily, or another PC can if they are willing to either take two OAs or burn an Action Point. But for the most part, it's tough to target both flanking foes on a diagonally flanked ally.