the guy behind the failed cthulu/monopoly Kickstarter got in trouble...

[Morrus]

Does it distinguish between fraud and incompetence (which is what most failed Kickstarter deliveries are)?

 

[prosfilaes]

As a threatening precedent... this isn't much of one. "So, if I get caught scamming people, I won't have to pay the money back - I will only really be in trouble if I get caught a second time," doesn't sound like much of a deterrent.

It's the classic problem, that you can't get blood from a stone, and you can't just take away everything and expect them to work hard enough to come up with it all.

In similar but lesser news, Metamorphosis Alpha Roleplaying Game by Jamie Chambers has delivered a final PDF, almost three years after everything was promised to be delivered. He's deeply upset that someone reported him to the Better Business Bureau, to which I can garner no sympathy. He says he will take lessons into his next Kickstarter... which I at least don't plan to be in for.

 

[Ryujin]

As a threatening precedent... this isn't much of one. "So, if I get caught scamming people, I won't have to pay the money back - I will only really be in trouble if I get caught a second time," doesn't sound like much of a deterrent.

Admittedly not, but it at least shows a willingness to finally get involved with the crowdfunding scamming. There may even be more to come with one government agency already getting involved, as it might make another do so. If the money was for business purposes but was redirected, then might it not also come under the auspices of the IRS? At the very least I would think it becomes "undeclared income" and the penalties for $100K plus of such would be substantial. The US government seems far more comfortable jailing tax cheats than most other forms of criminal.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Remember, though- it does still show on his credit report as an outstanding legal judgement of over $100k. People ask about that.

He has also been convicted of a felony "involving fraud or moral turpitude". People ask about those, too.

The first may disappear in 7 years, but the latter will follow him to every job hunt he goes on from this day forward. It will prevent him from even being considered for some.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Admittedly not, but it at least shows a willingness to finally get involved with the crowdfunding scamming. There may even be more to come with one government agency already getting involved, as it might make another do so. If the money was for business purposes but was redirected, then might it not also come under the auspices of the IRS? At the very least I would think it becomes "undeclared income" and the penalties for $100K plus of such would be substantial. The US government seems far more comfortable jailing tax cheats than most other forms of criminal.

He may have reported it as business income, which it is. If he didn't, and someone drops a dime on him, then yes- the IRS could get him for tax fraud.

If they (literally) wanted to make a federal case out of it, I believe wire fraud and violating the Interstate Commerce Clause could earn him some time at Leavenworth, downwind from the buffalo herd.

I don't think that will happen, though, unless this kind of thing becomes rampant, and "examples" must be made.

Believe me- you NEVER want to be and example in the criminal trial system. A relative of mine is doing 30 years for armed robbery. First offense. He was- and this is not disputed- passed out on drugs in the car when the robbery occurred.

 

[Ryujin]

He may have reported it as business income, which it is. If he didn't, and someone drops a dime on him, then yes- the IRS could get him for tax fraud.

If they (literally) wanted to make a federal case out of it, I believe wire fraud and violating the Interstate Commerce Clause could earn him some time at Leavenworth, downwind from the buffalo herd.

I don't think that will happen, though, unless this kind of thing becomes rampant, and "examples" must be made.

Believe me- you NEVER want to be and example in the criminal trial system. A relative of mine is doing 30 years for armed robbery. First offense. He was- and this is not disputed- passed out on drugs in the car when the robbery occurred.

All that I can say about that is, "WOW!"

Well there's also the possibility of nailing him for converting business funds for personal use. Again, admittedly not likely, but they could definitely make his life hell for a couple of decades.

*EDIT* And there actually has been a fair bit of abuse of the crowdfunding system, generally with respect to electronic gaming. Many campaigns that were successfully funded, but never produced the stated rewards nor game.

 

[Janx]

It's the classic problem, that you can't get blood from a stone, and you can't just take away everything and expect them to work hard enough to come up with it all.

In similar but lesser news, Metamorphosis Alpha Roleplaying Game by Jamie Chambers has delivered a final PDF, almost three years after everything was promised to be delivered. He's deeply upset that someone reported him to the Better Business Bureau, to which I can garner no sympathy. He says he will take lessons into his next Kickstarter... which I at least don't plan to be in for.

From your example, it sounds like he violated one of the best practices of KickStarter, which is to have all your design work done before hand. All the art, words, anything digital should be done, and you should be using KickStarter to finance the physical publishing (the stuff that takes money, not just time).

So Mr. Chambers likely earned that ding.

 

[prosfilaes]

From your example, it sounds like he violated one of the best practices of KickStarter, which is to have all your design work done before hand. All the art, words, anything digital should be done, and you should be using KickStarter to finance the physical publishing (the stuff that takes money, not just time).

So Mr. Chambers likely earned that ding.

If you're not an artist, art is going to take money, too. The more you front-load it, the less Kickstarter works for people who couldn't have done it without Kickstarter. But a 160 page book shouldn't take 3 years, especially not if you've promised it in 5 months.

 

[Ryujin]

If you're not an artist, art is going to take money, too. The more you front-load it, the less Kickstarter works for people who couldn't have done it without Kickstarter. But a 160 page book shouldn't take 3 years, especially not if you've promised it in 5 months.

A good Kickstarter campaign generally involves at least some personal cash outlay. A good pitch video costs money and you need to have at least something to show of the ultimate results.

 

[Morrus]

If you're not an artist, art is going to take money, too. The more you front-load it, the less Kickstarter works for people who couldn't have done it without Kickstarter. But a 160 page book shouldn't take 3 years, especially not if you've promised it in 5 months.

Yeah, art can be an enormous expense. My WOIN Kickstarter, once it funded, immediately paid out $20K for art.