The human factor in tabletop games

[Pozix]

Hello,
I’ve been lurking around this forum for quite some time now. I decided to post this here. Things haven’t been so great with our D&D party lately. I need help on some aspects of the game.
I don’t know if I’m posting in the right section. If I’m not, I’m sorry and feel free to move this thread.

How do you avoid players monopolizing “camera time”?
How do you stop players from leaving the group and going on personal sub-quests?
Does it have to be the GM’s job to block this kind of actions or do you make the players understand this?
Do you impose spellcasters to have the components for a spell? How do you manage it?

Edit: I shouldn't have posted this rant, phrasing and typing it was enough to make me move on.

 

[steenan]

1. Problems you describe may come from natural group dynamics (introverted vs. extroverted players, more or less of system and setting mastery etc.) or from intentional harmful behavior. In the second case, a honest out-of-game conversation is necessary to straighten things. In the first case, it is also very useful.

2. The best way to avoid players monopolizing the game is aggressive scene cutting. If somebody takes much more spotlight than others, don't play full scenes that focus on them. Ask for their intent in given scene, resolve it with a simple roll and move on. Or, if the scene is worth playing in full, cut from it to what other players are doing and then go back when they are finished.

3. That's something a GM can't do without making the fiction feel very artificial. PCs interact with NPCs, they build emotional relations with them and it's natural to play them out. But it should be kept from getting excessive.
- Talk with players before the game starts what the expectations are. Remember that there are two different dimensions here: cooperation vs. conflict between PCs and intra-group interaction vs. external interaction. People often confuse them.
- Make sure before the game starts that characters have more interesting ties between themselves than with NPCs. The "interesting" part is crucial - it's not enough that they have things in common, they must have things players want to actively explore.
- Create situations that connect back to the group (eg. player A interacts with an NPC and the NPC asks them for something that A's PC can't do, but another player's PC can).
- Don't feed the trolls, that is, don't create content for a player that focuses on solo exploration. As long as they find interesting or useful situations while going solo, they have no reason not to do it. When they see there is more fun with the party, they'll change their approach.
- Remember that the more immersive the game, the worse this kind of problem can becomes. Players who immerse deeply have less awareness left for policing themselves and less reason to treat PCs differently than other characters they encounter in fiction (the distinction is purely metagame, after all).

4. "Blocking" something by the GM usually only creates frustration on both sides of the table. If there's a problem, speak about it openly with the players, get them to understand what the problem is and make them invested in solving it. Your other job is creating game situations that encourage the good behavior instead of the bad one.

 

[Pozix]

Thank you steenan for your extensive and detailed answer.

I completely agree with you on some points and you have made me aware of others that I didn't think were pertinent enough to take the time needed to talk players into them.
About the aggressive scene cutting, I tried that with that person, when I was GM but it didn't go as planned, he felt targeted and took it personally. He called me on it telling me I'd been doing it on purpose to "ruin his fun".

Now that I'm not the GM anymore, I called him on it when he kept doing it, we stopped the campaign and we had that out-of-game conversation you're talking about. I made sure to explain to him that it wasn't personal, that I did it so that the others could participate as well. His permanent search for whatever riches and power hinders the other players as well. In the end, none of them wanted to confront him on this, they were like "Ah whatever, I just want to play, wake me up when he is done." (yes, it took so long that people slept for a few hours, woke up and he was still having his game time), so I stopped trying.
So when you say to cut from it to what other players are doing, we simply can't, because we're in the middle of a major plot twist in the campaign and he needs to be there. We're considerate enough towards him but it's not mutual.

Your third point is very important because this is how we can fix things up, but I have some questions about it. We already tried to talk before the start of my campaign, I asked them what would they like to be, as a group, what would they like to have as a general objective, stuff like that. "I don't want to know them, we'll meet in-game, surprise us" was the general answer.

I understand it's the GM's role to handle the stories and situations but when the players tell you "I have my own story, I don't want a background imposed on me, I don't want others to have the same background as me, I want to have a choice on the issue, you can't force me to be from there or there etc.", what should you answer him? How do you make him understand that the game is made to be played with others and having fun with them?

I'm going to try in our next session/campaign to create those ties and situations that links the whole group together, more than with the NPCs, but how do you make them accept it?
Also, about my 4th point, on the spell casters and components, how do you deal with it?

Thank you again for your time and insight on the matter.

 

[Boneguard]

In regards to spellcaster and material componant, my GM imposes the following rule on my magic-user.

For spell that I have in my spellbook at the beginning of the adventure :
1) If it's small, cheap or common items: rose, petal, sand, lint, small straight metal rod (eg needles), etc. we can assume that I have some at hand.

2) If it's rarer, is uncommon or rare, has a high cost: 100 gp pearls, owl feathers, tar, etc. I need to specifically tell him I'm getting some (and then remove it as it is "burned" after spellcasting).

In other word, if those rarer more espensive componant are not on my equipment list, I don't have them.

For spell discovered in the course of the adventure, unless it's easily obtained component, or something I happen to have with me, I cannot use them,until I get my hand on the componant (which usually happen at town).

 

[ccs]

How do you avoid players monopolizing “camera time”?
How do you stop players from leaving the group and going on personal sub-quests?
Does it have to be the GM’s job to block this kind of actions or do you make the players understand this?
Do you impose spellcasters to have the components for a spell? How do you manage it?.

On camera time: I'm the DM. {I} decide when the camera shifts to something, how long it lingers, & how far it zooms in.
In my games its not at all uncommon for characters to be running about seperate from the group. Generally though l'll give a player about 5-10 minutes at a time. Then I'll move on to the next player. Often saying something like "Meanwhile, over at.....". Sometimes stopping in the middle of an action.

If it's something that fits what we're doing, see above.
Sometimes though the answer is simply "I'm sorry, I can't DM that here in the regularly scheduled game session. It'd take too long/be too involved/etc. Let's get together Monday."

Yes, it's my job.
It's also on the players to realize how to play as a group.

Yes, I require spell components. And ammunition....
You run out of x? You don't cast/shoot.

 

[Detective Snail]

Remember that the GM's job is mostly to ask and answer questions.

If players don't seem to be having fun, ask them all if the situation is fun.

If you have a player who is hogging the spotlight, ask the group how much camera time they feel like they should all be given.

These situations are the same as asking them how they react to dangerous situations in the game itself. Once a situation is presented to them all you have to do is ask how they react. meta game situations function the same way, just give them the situation and ask how they want to react and then build off it.

 

[steenan]

Your third point is very important because this is how we can fix things up, but I have some questions about it. We already tried to talk before the start of my campaign, I asked them what would they like to be, as a group, what would they like to have as a general objective, stuff like that. "I don't want to know them, we'll meet in-game, surprise us" was the general answer.

I understand it's the GM's role to handle the stories and situations but when the players tell you "I have my own story, I don't want a background imposed on me, I don't want others to have the same background as me, I want to have a choice on the issue, you can't force me to be from there or there etc.", what should you answer him? How do you make him understand that the game is made to be played with others and having fun with them?

I'm going to try in our next session/campaign to create those ties and situations that links the whole group together, more than with the NPCs, but how do you make them accept it?

I'd just be brutally honest with the players here.

"I don't want to run separate campaigns for each of you. I'll put you together, but staying together is your job.

Creating characters together and making sure they have enough in common is the easiest way to do it. Making characters separately and expecting them to work well together is a bad idea and I'm not a magician to make it work. If you really want to create characters separately, make sute that they're flexible enough to fit, no matter who the other PCs are.

Because if you split or get into a conflict you can't solve, I'm running the game for the biggest part left of the party. Whoever's left out, creates a new character or leaves."

As my wife likes to say, "the GM is not a dancing monkey". They are one of the players and they are there to have fun, like the others. It's everybody's job to make the game fun for everybody.
If someone's not doing that, talk with them. If they refuse to play well with others, get rid of them.

 

[iserith]

How do you avoid players monopolizing “camera time”?

The DM controls the camera and can put the focus on those who need it and take it off those who have had a reasonable amount of time in the spotlight. But make sure the players have an expectation that spotlight time will be shared more or less equally and understand why that is important.

How do you stop players from leaving the group and going on personal sub-quests?
Does it have to be the GM’s job to block this kind of actions or do you make the players understand this?

I bet a town or city features heavily in your game? If so, get them to a dungeon, stat!

But in any case, make sure the party has a shared goal that is more important than individual goals. Encourage players to involve other people's character in their individual goals. Offer XP or Inspiration for doing so. Set an expectation that sometimes splitting up the party is fun for everyone and helps create an exciting, memorable story, but not all the time or even most of the time.

One last thing to consider: Players often come up with errands to run when nothing pressing is in their face. Make sure your campaign features high-stakes conflict in which the players are interested and drive toward that action.

Do you impose spellcasters to have the components for a spell? How do you manage it?

Yes, but they either have the spell component pouch or they don't. That's the extent of my tracking it. If there is a significant gold cost associated with the spell, I will ask that they make sure to deduct it accordingly.

Most of your issues here are solved by just communicating your wishes with the players and seeking their buy-in. Or finding a compromise that works for everyone. I suggest having this conversation outside the context of the game and via voice (in-person, on the phone, Skype, Google hangout, etc.) rather than email.

 

[Illithidbix]

How do you avoid players monopolizing “camera time”?
How do you stop players from leaving the group and going on personal sub-quests?
Does it have to be the GM’s job to block this kind of actions or do you make the players understand this?

Do you impose spellcasters to have the components for a spell? How do you manage it?[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]

First principle is to simply encourage communication between players and the GM about what the idea for the game and what they want to do. If the GM and the players feel they're in conflict, then chances are the game isn't going to be enjoyable for either party.

Pretty much all issues with tabletop groups come from different player expectations and play styles trying to mesh with the GM's and other players.
Likewise due to there only being one "processor" (the GM), every player directly reduces the individual limelight time, which can mesh badly with player's attention spans. Five players is when this can get very noticeable.

In an ideal world a TRULY MIGHTY AND SKILLFUL GM would be able to shape and control the game so limelight hogging and solo scenes are not a problem, but no GM has any form of professional training, we're all just rank amateurs attempting an incredibly difficult creative challenge.
And in many cases trying to fix the problem solely in the midst of playing is firefighting the problem.

I sometimes do pointedly directly ask quieter players for their imput if I've noticed they haven't seen to contribute much in a scene.

So in many cases it's best to raise the issues directly with the players about your concerns about how the game is going. Perhaps best to phrase it as "I am worried that X doesn't get enough screen time" rather than "Y. You hogging the limelight too much"


Spell components, I only care about them as much as it's interesting to care about them. 5E D&D has component pouch or a spellcasting focuses for a very good reason.

 

[Manbearcat]

How do you avoid players monopolizing “camera time”?
How do you stop players from leaving the group and going on personal sub-quests?
Does it have to be the GM’s job to block this kind of actions or do you make the players understand this?
Do you impose spellcasters to have the components for a spell? How do you manage it?

You've received a lot of good advice from folks about the social contract and GMing technique end of things. However, there is another aspect of this that is a game-changer. That is system.

Games whose architecture is either predicated upon or amenable to a scene-based paradigm is considerably more wieldy when it comes to the party either splitting up intentionally or being split up by circumstance (Dungeon World even advocates for it as a GM Move!). Games such as D&D 4e, Dungeon World, and Cortex+ Heroic Fantasy (Cortex+ Hacker's Guide) easily facilitates the resolution of multiple, dynamic scenes concurrently. Further, those systems have the load-bearing elements (PC-wise, rewards cycle-wise, and basic resolution mechanics-wise) to make it user-friendly for low-prep GMs and intuitive and streamlined from a play procedure perspective.

My players split up, or are split up by me, pretty regularly and it is pretty simple to keep the action going and to bounce from scene to scene in those games. Worth a look anyway.