The Immortals Handbook

[Revenge of the Bjorn]

My entry in the "guess a time lord contest" is Kali as splained by someone or other here

Actually I saw another page way back that had the same information but with pictures and a flashier layout and whatnot, but I couldn't find it again.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Bjorn mate!

My entry in the "guess a time lord contest" is Kali as splained by someone or other here

Very interesting, thanks for the link...although Kali is an aspect of Aditi, she herself would not be a First One...let alone a Time Lord.

Though Kali in 'Durga mode' might well be an Elder Goddess or at least the equivalent of one (in terms of CR).

Actually I saw another page way back that had the same information but with pictures and a flashier layout and whatnot, but I couldn't find it again.

Let me know if you find it again.

 

[Knight Otu]

Yes thats right.

It is a bit unwieldy though. As you yourself note, its possibly the largest template in the world.

The scary thing is... there's always room for growth!

Some of those Planar Abilities seem a touch powerful (given that they are effectively representing feats). Improved Natural Armour for instance.

Actually, my idea was to make them somewhat more powerful than feats. For example, the Improved Saves ability is more or less the old version of Hero's Luck, with the addition that it can be taken multiple times. That said, Improved Natural Armor is likely too powerful.

 

[historian]

Howdy Krust!

There are characters from Earths mythology that are Time Lords.

I'm afraid I'm all out of ideas.

Yes. Time is Zurvan Akarana (or Janus), Death, Fate and the others also have actual names, but I'll save them for the book.

I surfed back a couple of pages in thread and noticed that you had these guys as varying ranks of sidereals.

I'm struggling to come up w/something that would 'lord' over these guys, unless it is a creator type being in a monotheistic religion -- but I think such a being would be a supernal.

It gets really complicated dealing with CRs for Time Lords and above (when you see the Omnific and (if I keep them) Metempiric powers you'll understand better.

I think I understand. There will be a base template that adds something like a fixed CR but there are at least two variables - First, the level or HP deviation between 'immortals' broadens as they increase in rank (i.e. the difference in character levels between first ones is on average greater than the difference between intermediate deities) and, second, as powers become greater, their effect on overall CR is greater (even if not proportionately) than lower ranked powers (i.e. the CR ranges for the omnific gifts covers a much broader spectrum than those of the divine gifts).

I mean if I said the Supreme Being only had about 25 million hit points you might laugh at me

It's hard to laugh at something that could kick your a** across the multiverse.

but when you add some of the powers that may as well be 25 googleplex...You'll see.

That's an awful lot of hit points man.

But I think I 'get the drift' so to speak?

He converts to about CR 357...if you want a bit more precision.

I love precision (sounds like you've got him statted out in front of you).

I'm guessing he'll push 10,000 hit points?

I dunno, I see him losing a HD/Level per day when he does not eat a planet. Some of his powers also accelerate his hunger in this way.

Cool, so CR 357 represents a 'practical maximum' as opposed to just an average (this seems in line with his portrayals over the last 15 years where he has really shown some vulnerability).

 

[Valnauron Isthiliel]

Hello again, I've been lurking here for a while (I asked a few questions awhile back (like around page 6 or something...?). The timelord question has me intrigued...
Would Shiva or Vishnu be "timelords"? Bramha would probably fit as a "supernal"...
Would Cronos, from whose name we derive words like chronological, really "only" (not that it still isn't really powerful ) be a "sidereal", as you have said before? Very interesting...
Man, Ive got to get this book!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Knight Otu mate!

The scary thing is... there's always room for growth!

Unfortunately, thats the mantra I seem to have adopted over the past year (or so) with the IH.

Actually, my idea was to make them somewhat more powerful than feats. For example, the Improved Saves ability is more or less the old version of Hero's Luck, with the addition that it can be taken multiple times. That said, Improved Natural Armor is likely too powerful.

You have five equal to a Divine Salient Ability (as would I on average), so I can see how you arrived at some of the figures (by reverse engineering SDAs rather that taking feats/epic feats).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Krust!

Hiya mate!

I'm afraid I'm all out of ideas.

Thats okay, its a tough question.

I surfed back a couple of pages in thread and noticed that you had these guys as varying ranks of sidereals.

Yep.

I'm struggling to come up w/something that would 'lord' over these guys,

Well you could arguably have the Lords of Necessity from Fritz Liebers Lankhmar setting...though they were not the ones from Earths myth I was refering to. I wonder could I mention them in the IH (?) the same way the ELH mentions, Elric, Conan and Gandalf?

unless it is a creator type being in a monotheistic religion -- but I think such a being would be a supernal.

Ultimately, though I would have the Canaanite god El as a 'mere' Greater God.

I think I understand. There will be a base template that adds something like a fixed CR but there are at least two variables - First, the level or HP deviation between 'immortals' broadens as they increase in rank (i.e. the difference in character levels between first ones is on average greater than the difference between intermediate deities) and, second, as powers become greater, their effect on overall CR is greater (even if not proportionately) than lower ranked powers (i.e. the CR ranges for the omnific gifts covers a much broader spectrum than those of the divine gifts).

To an extent yes, but it closely surrounds some of the most powerful abilities (much of which I don't want to give away, though...imagine you had 25 million hit points and infinite fast healing for instance...meaning that someone would need to deal 25 million damage in one round to defeat you.)

Of course thats just the tip of the iceberg, but combining some of the upper tier powers gets ridiculous.

It's hard to laugh at something that could kick your a** across the multiverse.

It wouldn't even need to, it could just fold your multiverse and put it in its pocket and use it later to blow its nose with.

That's an awful lot of hit points man.

But I think I 'get the drift' so to speak?

Thats before it takes the Infinite Constitution Omnific Ability of course.

I love precision (sounds like you've got him statted out in front of you).

Only vaguely.

I'm guessing he'll push 10,000 hit points?

Godzilla has exactly 10,000 hp.

Cool, so CR 357 represents a 'practical maximum' as opposed to just an average (this seems in line with his portrayals over the last 15 years where he has really shown some vulnerability).

Yes, at least thats how I see it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again,

Hey welcome back!

I've been lurking here for a while (I asked a few questions awhile back (like around page 6 or something...?).

Time just seems to fly by me.

The timelord question has me intrigued...

Heh heh!

Would Shiva or Vishnu be "timelords"? Bramha would probably fit as a "supernal"...

Only in a closed cosmology revolving wholly around the Hindu Pantheon would such beings even approach any such lofty heights and it would probably be pointless even making them such at any time.

In a completely open cosmology, Brahma (and Shiva and Vishnu) are 'mere' Greater Gods.

Brahma is one of the top 3 (Earth) Skyfather Greater Powers though...I always loved his portrayal in Pantheon of the Megaverse - brilliant book by the way, I recommend it to everyone.

Would Cronos, from whose name we derive words like chronological, really "only" (not that it still isn't really powerful ) be a "sidereal", as you have said before? Very interesting...

Cronos would be an Elder God (as would the primary titans). Once I explain what Elder Gods really are you guys will all love how I have handled them, it works especially well with the Titans and how they are imprisoned. I really want to tell you, but I'll just keep that a secret for now.

Man, Ive got to get this book!

I appreciate the support mate.

 

[Valnauron Isthiliel]

Hey

Time just seems to fly by me.

Perhaps the "time lords" are doing this to prevent you from revealing all of their secrets

Only in a closed cosmology revolving wholly around the Hindu Pantheon would such beings even approach any such lofty heights and it would probably be pointless even making them such at any time.

I dunno if it would be pointless, I could imagine a campaign based around characters that are reincarnated into higher and higher forms until they are "enlightened" enough to percieve the true nature of these beings, or something like that :goes off to design this campaign:

In a completely open cosmology, Brahma (and Shiva and Vishnu) are 'mere' Greater Gods.

Brahma is one of the top 3 (Earth) Skyfather Greater Powers though...I always loved his portrayal in Pantheon of the Megaverse - brilliant book by the way, I recommend it to everyone.

I like this idea too! A campaign (sort of like planescape...) in which there exist multiple mythologies alongside each other. I have always thought of Brahma as being sort of like The Force from Star Wars, encompassing all things at once as the fabric of creation itself, but if multiple cosmologies exist alongside one another I can totally see it this way too, since that statement can usually describe the "top man" of any mythos. I'll go see if I can find that book at my local library, it sounds very interesting.

Cronos would be an Elder God (as would the primary titans). Once I explain what Elder Gods really are you guys will all love how I have handled them, it works especially well with the Titans and how they are imprisoned. I really want to tell you, but I'll just keep that a secret for now.

That does sound fascinating! I've always been interested in "Elder God" type beings, probably because there only seems to ever be enough information about them to whet my appetite even more.

I appreciate the support mate.

And I appreciate all of the great ideas you come up with, and how you always respond to everyone's questions with so much thought.

 

[Fieari]

Argh! Everything you're saying just makes me want it more and more and I can't have it until you're finished! Argh! Argh! Argh! My money is BURNING to get into your pocket man!

It seems I may have to readjust my thoughts on relative power levels if you're saying that the incarnation of Time is a mere (heh, mere) Elder God. A Time Lord has to be something more fundamental than that, and yet not as powerful as a Supreme Being. That's quite a tricky balance!

Would an incarnation of Wisdom fall under the "Time Lord" category? I don't know of any in Earth Mythology, but what I mean is the embodiment of the ability to have knowledge. The fundamental difference between that which can be known (ie, everything) and that which can't be known (ie, nothing we can begin to imagine, by definition). It seems to me that without such a thing, you can't conceive of anything else. That the concept of a concept can't exist without it. That a Supreme Being would have to first create Wisdom before anything else... see Law of Self Contradiction

Am I thinking in the right direction, at the very least?