The Iron Mage (WotST build)

[Nifft]

as a Specific implement (which one would presumably choose the implement or an implement in which one has mastery)?

You can ONLY take Spiral Tower if you have Arcane Implement Mastery (so it's useless to multi-classers, which is annoying), and yes, it counts as a specific implement (p. 171).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Fedifensor]

What exactly are you getting from STR, or even CHA, for that matter?

Str 15 is needed for Heavy Shield Proficiency (+1 AC and +1 Reflex defense). Charisma 13 is needed for Spell Focus (-2 to enemy saves). I could skimp by a point on each, but it requires a lot more tweaking of the build, and I want a full 30-level viability instead of focusing on the endgame capabilities.

Really, the only reason a wizard would want to get such a high AC is to dominate the front lines with Close attacks. That's Thunderwave, Burning Hands, Color Spray and the like.

I disagree. Ranged attackers, skirmishers that slide past the defenders...there's a lot of reasons why a high AC is a good thing. That said, one possible change would be to drop Scorching Burst or Magic Missile for Thunderwave.

 

[Torebo]

You can ONLY take Spiral Tower if you have Arcane Implement Mastery (so it's useless to multi-classers, which is annoying), and yes, it counts as a specific implement (p. 171).

Cheers, -- N

Looking at it more closely, it says you can use the longsword as a specific type of implement when casting spells, which would seem to rule out the staff mastery trick (reducing overall AC by 1 and negating the potential for +Con against one attack per encounter), but it's still a nifty concept.

Note to Self: Find a cool Spiral Tower build to play sometime.

 

[Nifft]

Looking at it more closely, it says you can use the longsword as a specific type of implement when casting spells, which would seem to rule out the staff mastery trick (reducing overall AC by 1 and negating the potential for +Con against one attack per encounter)

... until you cast a spell. Then, it's a Staff, and you get your Staff Mastery bonus.

So the trick is then to have a spell up with a non-instantaneous duration. (Personally, I'd just let them have the +1 AC all the time, but your interpretation doesn't preclude the bonus most of the time.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[bardolph]

Str 15 is needed for Heavy Shield Proficiency (+1 AC and +1 Reflex defense). Charisma 13 is needed for Spell Focus (-2 to enemy saves). I could skimp by a point on each, but it requires a lot more tweaking of the build, and I want a full 30-level viability instead of focusing on the endgame capabilities.

OK, I see. STR 13 is also needed for Hide proficiency. Still, it looks like you're more spread out than you need to be. You're committing way too many attribute points to buy your way into feats that you don't really need.

What makes Staff Mastery useful is the fact that you can invoke it after the DM rolls damage. You don't need to load up on fighter-scale AC, because you can CHOOSE when to take your bonus, and use it only when it will make the difference between success and failure (AND only when the damage is significant enough to want to block). Same goes for spells like Shield.

The big flaw in your character design is that if you have an even marginally competent Defender in the group, you won't be attacked all that often. So, here's this tremendous investment in AC that's going to sit around unused most of the time. Rather than loading up on 5 points of STR just so you can spend 3 feats on AC boosters, why not just stick to CON, and pull the trigger only when it matters? Besides, more CON means more hit points and Healing Surges, anyway.

Likewise, though I think Spell Focus is nice, it's not a must-have. Pushing 2-3 points into CHA for just one feat is too much opportunity cost.

If you're willing to let your AC cap at leather armor sans shield, you've suddenly dropped two ability requirements and regained 3 feats (Dark Fury, Burning Blizzard, and Improved Initiative all come to mind). You can then safely focus on INT, CON, and WIS and be an extremely competent close range blaster. Alternatively, you can dump WIS and go pure INT+CON.

As far as the sword goes, yes it's nice that you gain an off-hand and I can see why you would want to exploit it, I just think that 4 points of STR is too expensive. Just use that extra hand to wield the sword 2-handed and take the extra +1 damage.

 

[bardolph]

... until you cast a spell. Then, it's a Staff, and you get your Staff Mastery bonus.

So the trick is then to have a spell up with a non-instantaneous duration. (Personally, I'd just let them have the +1 AC all the time, but your interpretation doesn't preclude the bonus most of the time.)

Cheers, -- N

Hmm... my guess is that this is an error, and that the sword would also count as an orb/wand/staff when invoking Implement Mastery.


EDIT: Hmm... while I'm at it, I'm not sure that Spiral Tower is the best Paragon Path for a staff wizard. It seems that Spiral Tower is geared towards Eladrin wand-wizards, who get longsword proficiency for free, and can use the +2 DEX to pump their accuracy through their wand. Also, because the wand doesn't require two hands, it doesn't conflict with the spiral sword.

If you're really going for a high-AC staff wizard, Battle Mage seems like a much better fit. Again, the high AC allows you to get up in their face for close blasting, and the Battle Mage abilities let you punish your enemies for daring to attack you.

 

[Fedifensor]

Looking at it more closely, it says you can use the longsword as a specific type of implement when casting spells, which would seem to rule out the staff mastery trick (reducing overall AC by 1 and negating the potential for +Con against one attack per encounter), but it's still a nifty concept.

All implements are used "when casting spells". I think parsing the class feature that way is a bit of a nitpick. That said, I can certainly email Wizards to see if they will clarify that feature. The multiclassers already get hosed by the wording of Corellon's Implement, no need to hose the single-class wizards as well.

 

[Fedifensor]

OK, I see. STR 13 is also needed for Hide proficiency. Still, it looks like you're more spread out than you need to be. You're committing way too many attribute points to buy your way into feats that you don't really need.

Really, with 19 feat choices over 30 levels, that is usually the case. And since Wizards are more focused on a single attribute than any other class, I can spare the attribute points.

What makes Staff Mastery useful is the fact that you can invoke it after the DM rolls damage. You don't need to load up on fighter-scale AC, because you can CHOOSE when to take your bonus, and use it only when it will make the difference between success and failure (AND only when the damage is significant enough to want to block). Same goes for spells like Shield.

However, Staff Mastery and Shield are only useful once per encounter each. Even if you only use it when it determines success or failure, there are a lot of attacks that occur over the course of a combat (and Shield won't help you versus Fortitude or Will attacks).

The big flaw in your character design is that if you have an even marginally competent Defender in the group, you won't be attacked all that often. So, here's this tremendous investment in AC that's going to sit around unused most of the time.

Over 30 years of gaming, I've found a LOT of people who aren't even "marginally competent" - sometimes on purpose for roleplaying reasons, sometimes because they aren't that proficient with the rules, and sometimes simply because they're jerks. It's nice to have that buffer of AC when that happens.

Rather than loading up on 5 points of STR just so you can spend 3 feats on AC boosters, why not just stick to CON, and pull the trigger only when it matters? Besides, more CON means more hit points and Healing Surges, anyway.

If I'm not hit, why do I need a lot of healing surges? And the difference 5 CON makes is...5 HP. Not a big concern.

Likewise, though I think Spell Focus is nice, it's not a must-have. Pushing 2-3 points into CHA for just one feat is too much opportunity cost.

Losing 2-3 HP and a healing surge isn't a big cost in my eyes.

If you're willing to let your AC cap at leather armor sans shield, you've suddenly dropped two ability requirements and regained 3 feats (Dark Fury, Burning Blizzard, and Improved Initiative all come to mind). You can then safely focus on INT, CON, and WIS and be an extremely competent close range blaster. Alternatively, you can dump WIS and go pure INT+CON.

Dropping 4 points of AC and 2 points of Reflex defense is a pretty big deal. What I get for doing so isn't all that much.

The feats that boost damage boost it 1, 2, or 3 points, depending on tier. At level 30, when my weakest at-will does 2d6+10 (avg 17), raising that to 20 pts isn't a big deal. The return is even worse on encounter and daily powers that do more damage. The high defenses mean I don't need to go first (and I prefer to get a feel for the situation before I act, anyway), so Improved Initiative isn't really needed.

As far as the sword goes, yes it's nice that you gain an off-hand and I can see why you would want to exploit it, I just think that 4 points of STR is too expensive. Just use that extra hand to wield the sword 2-handed and take the extra +1 damage.

Again, I consider the loss of 4 pts of AC and 2 pts of Reflex defense to be huge, and gaining a few HP and +1 damage with a single encounter and single daily to not be worth it.

Also remember, this is a concept build, focused on defenses. If I just wanted the best wizard I could make, I'd choose Orb and pump Wisdom to completely lock down a group of foes once per encounter.

 

[The Sword 88]

Very nice, I was thinking about a build like this but now I can just use yours. Awesome.

 

[bardolph]

However, Staff Mastery and Shield are only useful once per encounter each. Even if you only use it when it determines success or failure, there are a lot of attacks that occur over the course of a combat (and Shield won't help you versus Fortitude or Will attacks).


Over 30 years of gaming, I've found a LOT of people who aren't even "marginally competent" - sometimes on purpose for roleplaying reasons, sometimes because they aren't that proficient with the rules, and sometimes simply because they're jerks. It's nice to have that buffer of AC when that happens.

Well, if you're one-manning it due to the incompetence of your allies, then I agree you need everything you can get. And if the point of your build is to showcase a wizard's maximum AC, then, well, no point in compromising, is there?

If I'm not hit, why do I need a lot of healing surges? And the difference 5 CON makes is...5 HP. Not a big concern.

5 CON means 5 HP AND +2.5 Healing Surges AND +2.5 Fortitude AND +2.5 on Staff Mastery. Together, it adds up to quite a lot.

Dropping 4 points of AC and 2 points of Reflex defense is a pretty big deal. What I get for doing so isn't all that much.

The feats that boost damage boost it 1, 2, or 3 points, depending on tier. At level 30, when my weakest at-will does 2d6+10 (avg 17), raising that to 20 pts isn't a big deal. The return is even worse on encounter and daily powers that do more damage. The high defenses mean I don't need to go first (and I prefer to get a feel for the situation before I act, anyway), so Improved Initiative isn't really needed.

4 AC and 2 Reflex is a big deal if you're getting targeted often, I agree. However, a 17% damage boost to an At-Will power is also very nice.

Improved Initiative is something I drew out of a hat. Toughness is also nice. Heck, even Linguist is good, as are the Multiclass feats (Initiate of the Faith and Pact Initiate are good choices).

Again, I consider the loss of 4 pts of AC and 2 pts of Reflex defense to be huge, and gaining a few HP and +1 damage with a single encounter and single daily to not be worth it.

Spell damage feats are not limited-use. They apply every time you attack with a power that has the correct keyword.

As far as the AC goes, it really has everything to do with how often you get targeted. If you're only getting attacked a few times per encounter, the extra HP should be enough to compensate. However, if you're a hot target, then yes the AC is very nice.

Also remember, this is a concept build, focused on defenses. If I just wanted the best wizard I could make, I'd choose Orb and pump Wisdom to completely lock down a group of foes once per encounter.

Yeah, that's a great build. I do believe there are other good Staff builds, though.