D&D 5E The Light of Civilization - A 5e Renaissance Story [OOC]

[Shayuri]

Woah Shayuri. The events and subterfuge you're describing is the kind of thing that makes vengeful angels come knocking.

It's fine, brother, so long as it's for the greater good, and the glory of the Maker.

Praise him!

 

[Jago]

Cast Thread Is Up!

 

[pathfinderq1]

At this point, with one large Church, there may be even more factions in play. I had an idea that the largest (and/or currently in-charge) faction dislikes the open use of divine magic (since the Maker, and not the Church) actually provides this and hates/fears arcane magic (or at least most of it- see below). There is another faction which actively encourages divine casters, but they are a small group. Another faction is secretly developing casters for benevolent purposes (they believe that arcane magic is also a gift from the Maker, but that human error and sins caused it to be catastrophically misused- and that with proper 'controls' they can do better next time)- another faction (or a subset of that one) is developing mages with less benevolent plans... Yet another faction does not hate or fear arcane magic, but nor do they work to improve it- they simply study it (in both current and historic forms) so that they know how to deal with it when they encounter it. Both this one AND one of the development factions might be tied to the Guild Arcane in various ways- and both of the development sects might be tied to the Order Illuminated (though what each side actually KNOWS about the other, and who exactly is in control, are hardly well-settled facts.

While the magic-fearing faction is the largest overall, and is currently in charge, both the 'Study' and 'Benevolent development' factions have a strong presence within our starting city, and they are the ones who have been 'treating' our poor sorceress. The Magdalena (and my church scholar, if used) work for those factions- possibly both for the Studiers, and have been working with the Sorcery project.

But now the 'Fear' Faction has caught wind of the project, and moved to quash it, with all the 'Official' might of the Church behind them. Our sorcery team is forced to go on the run (hopefully just for a while, but who knows)- their faction or factions can't officially take on the majority of the Church (though they are still confident in their faith, and believe they will be vindicated in the long term. Both the Magdalena and my scholar were 'chosen' because they are about the same age as the sorceress (to foster companionship) and because their association with her during the earlier phases of the project has actually awakened their respective magical gifts (as paladin and bard, both casters in a low magic world- there HAS to be some explanation other than sheer coincidence; maybe the Maker is trying to say something).

On the run, The Magdalena ran across an old associate from her brief time on the streets- someone who put them in touch with the others. The 'Streets' team had been trying to make a living in the growing grey area between law-abiding citizens and the active hard-core organized crime world (Thieves Guild)- and now that moral tightrope has to hold up everyone in the combined group. Maybe it is time to get out of town for a bit- before the Church's agents find them or the sorceress has another 'episode', this time in public...

Let me know what people think of this, I'll expand clarify later.

 

[VLAD the Destroyer]

so I'll have some more up tomorrow regarding exploration and piracy. Can't wait for this to start. Love the concept and really getting into the world building.

 

[KahlessNestor]

At this point, with one large Church, there may be even more factions in play. I had an idea that the largest (and/or currently in-charge) faction dislikes the open use of divine magic (since the Maker, and not the Church) actually provides this and hates/fears arcane magic (or at least most of it- see below). There is another faction which actively encourages divine casters, but they are a small group. Another faction is secretly developing casters for benevolent purposes (they believe that arcane magic is also a gift from the Maker, but that human error and sins caused it to be catastrophically misused- and that with proper 'controls' they can do better next time)- another faction (or a subset of that one) is developing mages with less benevolent plans... Yet another faction does not hate or fear arcane magic, but nor do they work to improve it- they simply study it (in both current and historic forms) so that they know how to deal with it when they encounter it. Both this one AND one of the development factions might be tied to the Guild Arcane in various ways- and both of the development sects might be tied to the Order Illuminated (though what each side actually KNOWS about the other, and who exactly is in control, are hardly well-settled facts.

While the magic-fearing faction is the largest overall, and is currently in charge, both the 'Study' and 'Benevolent development' factions have a strong presence within our starting city, and they are the ones who have been 'treating' our poor sorceress. The Magdalena (and my church scholar, if used) work for those factions- possibly both for the Studiers, and have been working with the Sorcery project.

But now the 'Fear' Faction has caught wind of the project, and moved to quash it, with all the 'Official' might of the Church behind them. Our sorcery team is forced to go on the run (hopefully just for a while, but who knows)- their faction or factions can't officially take on the majority of the Church (though they are still confident in their faith, and believe they will be vindicated in the long term. Both the Magdalena and my scholar were 'chosen' because they are about the same age as the sorceress (to foster companionship) and because their association with her during the earlier phases of the project has actually awakened their respective magical gifts (as paladin and bard, both casters in a low magic world- there HAS to be some explanation other than sheer coincidence; maybe the Maker is trying to say something).

On the run, The Magdalena ran across an old associate from her brief time on the streets- someone who put them in touch with the others. The 'Streets' team had been trying to make a living in the growing grey area between law-abiding citizens and the active hard-core organized crime world (Thieves Guild)- and now that moral tightrope has to hold up everyone in the combined group. Maybe it is time to get out of town for a bit- before the Church's agents find them or the sorceress has another 'episode', this time in public...

Let me know what people think of this, I'll expand clarify later.

I explained where Magdalena's powers come from in her backstory. It's an ancient ritual from shortly after the Harrowing that took what little divine magic remained in the church and put it all in one place (in one little girl). It was then passed on. So she wasn't triggered by tje sorceress. Though with divine magic coming back, she certainly could be getting more powerful.

I see Magdalena at least to start, as a kind of pawn between the factions. I initially viewed her as working more for the fear faction. But if you're high enough in the hierarchy, she has to do what you say. There might be a council with various views that "controls" her.

I was trying to steer away from the "church as bad guy" trope. "Evil church" is such a cliche I tend to try to avoid. I am more interested in things like the tension between Law and Good, or individuality and obligations, duty and freedom. I originally envisioned Magdalena more like Iron Man in Civil War. Magic is dangerous and someone needs to police it, or bad/worse things will happen.

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[Shayuri]

Arr

I don't think the idea here is that the church is evil. Rather, there is not 'a' Church. There is a broad, sprawling structure of power that encompasses a lot of points of view, and a lot of people. Few are objectively 'evil,' but any of them can be in conflict with any of the others.

I think it would be interesting if Magdelena WAS working for the 'magic is dangerous and must be controlled' faction. Perhaps, if they got wind of what the Guild was up to with the support of their dangerously curious bretheren, they sent one of their enforcers to go confiscate this 'source of magic' that their intel reports mentioned. Such a thing must be destroyed, or at least sequestered!

And then Magdelena gets there, and finds out that this is not a thing, but a person. She is confronted with that brick wall between what is 'lawful' and what is 'good.' Her orders are clear...but it could mean the death or unjust imprisonment of an innocent person.

Searching for philosophical 'wiggle room,' perhaps she decides that the only compromise she can accept, for now, is personally accompanying this person...hoping for a way to seperate the cursed magic from her so it can be dealt with in a morally justifiable way. While simultaneously resolving that, if this magic becomes too dangerous to other innocents, then she will be in a position to put an end to it.

This is, of course, a technical violation of her orders, so she may not be eager to report back in until the situation is resolved.

 

[pathfinderq1]

Yeah, that was kind of where I was going as well.

The Church (Or rather a part of the Church) is 'the bad guy'. And also 'the good guy'. And the 'Neutral peacemaker guy'. And several other guys floating around the sidelines, alternately observing and meddling. All of these things at once- and managing to stay together well enough to keep their position of power in the world at large. Remember that for all the Renaissance gave us, it also gave us the Borgias and Machiavelli.

And more to the point, most of the public has no idea that these divisions exist- or at least not how deeply the powers and factions are split- the Church is very careful to maintain a unified appearance (or at least minimize any divisions), to avoid showing any kind of dissent or weakness that other groups might use to threaten the Church's preeminence in the world. Instead of sects (like Catholicism's Dominicans, Jesuits, Franciscans, etc.- and that is as far as i'll go with that to avoid illegal discussion of real world religion), the various groups mostly identify with particular Exemplars. 'Normal people', especially the deeply religious, might know that some branches disagree on various matters, but they don't know how deep those disagreements run, and they probably couldn't really say EXACTLY what the disagreements were- and that is how the Church likes it. Open conflict is very bad for business, and for the faith- but behind-the-scenes conflict is a whole different story, and some people still end up dead.

As for tying in the Magdalena, we can go back to the 'critical' vision role- or say that she is effectively the opposite side of the coin from our sorceress, the 'divine ritual creation to "Balance" the 'arcane ritual creation'- and that the two are relentlessly drawn together by Fate, or the Powers, or the Will of the Maker.


>On another (related) note: one thing we might want to do is blur the division between Divine and Arcane magic. Even if, in the end, they come from two different sources, it is effectively the same energy, at least as far as mortals can tell. The true difference is in the belief of the caster, and in how they draw upon it. But normal Detect Magic, etc. just says 'Magic'- perhaps some of the higher level divinations could show a difference- but who can cast them? Or perhaps, in fact, they ARE the same after all, and the ONLY difference is in belief- arcane magic is a gift from the Maker to humanity in this case.

-The reasoning I'm looking at is that my scholar will be mechanically a Bard, but from a very Church-based viewpoint. I would kind of like to have her (non-warlock) magic be, at least nominally, divine- or at the very least she believes it to be divine.


We will get to the corresponding heresies in a bit...

 

[pathfinderq1]

PLACEHOLDER- IN PROGRESS

I'm going to start tacking my first submission together while we are continuing the background and setting discussion. I'll edit it up as I can, and I'll post again when I'm ready.

First pitch is a scholar, but a bit less of a quiet librarian and more of an investigator. We will see if I can make everything fit together.

>
Name:
Race/gender: Half-elf/female
Class/level: Rogue 1/ Bard / Warlock

Background: Sage (librarian/researcher)
-(with a dash of Acolyte and a pinch of the City Watch- Investigator)
Alignment:
Deity: The Maker ('Study' faction)
Patron Exemplar:

[sblock= CRUNCH]
-STATS: (27 pts)
STR 9 (-1)(1pt)
CON 12 (+1)(4pts)
DEX 14 (+2)(5pts, +1 racial)(Save +4)
INT 13 (+1)(5pts)(Save +3)
WIS 14 (+2)(5pts, +1 racial)
CHA 16 (+3)(7pts, +2 racial)

Classes/Levels:
Total level:
Hit points:
Hit dice:

Armor Class:
Initiative:
Feats/ASI: none yet

Proficient skills:

Nonproficient skills:

Languages:

Tool proficiencies:

Class abilities- Bard:

Class abilities- Warlock:
[/sblock]

[sblock= FLUFF]
-Background:
-Background features:

-History:

-Description:
[/sblock]

[sblock= GEAR]
-mysterious book

[/sblock]

 

[KahlessNestor]

Arr

I don't think the idea here is that the church is evil. Rather, there is not 'a' Church. There is a broad, sprawling structure of power that encompasses a lot of points of view, and a lot of people. Few are objectively 'evil,' but any of them can be in conflict with any of the others.

I think it would be interesting if Magdelena WAS working for the 'magic is dangerous and must be controlled' faction. Perhaps, if they got wind of what the Guild was up to with the support of their dangerously curious bretheren, they sent one of their enforcers to go confiscate this 'source of magic' that their intel reports mentioned. Such a thing must be destroyed, or at least sequestered!

And then Magdelena gets there, and finds out that this is not a thing, but a person. She is confronted with that brick wall between what is 'lawful' and what is 'good.' Her orders are clear...but it could mean the death or unjust imprisonment of an innocent person.

Searching for philosophical 'wiggle room,' perhaps she decides that the only compromise she can accept, for now, is personally accompanying this person...hoping for a way to seperate the cursed magic from her so it can be dealt with in a morally justifiable way. While simultaneously resolving that, if this magic becomes too dangerous to other innocents, then she will be in a position to put an end to it.

This is, of course, a technical violation of her orders, so she may not be eager to report back in until the situation is resolved.

Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. After, you know, the required "superhero throwdown" between them Having to learn to navigate church politics while also navigating the moral quandry. Would be kind of interesting if some factions in the church saw her as "gone rogue" and take required steps to "retrieve" her power.

And if you need some street figure to introduce them to the others there is always Magdalena's Romeo.

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[KahlessNestor]

Yeah, that was kind of where I was going as well.

The Church (Or rather a part of the Church) is 'the bad guy'. And also 'the good guy'. And the 'Neutral peacemaker guy'. And several other guys floating around the sidelines, alternately observing and meddling. All of these things at once- and managing to stay together well enough to keep their position of power in the world at large. Remember that for all the Renaissance gave us, it also gave us the Borgias and Machiavelli.

And more to the point, most of the public has no idea that these divisions exist- or at least not how deeply the powers and factions are split- the Church is very careful to maintain a unified appearance (or at least minimize any divisions), to avoid showing any kind of dissent or weakness that other groups might use to threaten the Church's preeminence in the world. Instead of sects (like Catholicism's Dominicans, Jesuits, Franciscans, etc.- and that is as far as i'll go with that to avoid illegal discussion of real world religion), the various groups mostly identify with particular Exemplars. 'Normal people', especially the deeply religious, might know that some branches disagree on various matters, but they don't know how deep those disagreements run, and they probably couldn't really say EXACTLY what the disagreements were- and that is how the Church likes it. Open conflict is very bad for business, and for the faith- but behind-the-scenes conflict is a whole different story, and some people still end up dead.

As for tying in the Magdalena, we can go back to the 'critical' vision role- or say that she is effectively the opposite side of the coin from our sorceress, the 'divine ritual creation to "Balance" the 'arcane ritual creation'- and that the two are relentlessly drawn together by Fate, or the Powers, or the Will of the Maker.


>On another (related) note: one thing we might want to do is blur the division between Divine and Arcane magic. Even if, in the end, they come from two different sources, it is effectively the same energy, at least as far as mortals can tell. The true difference is in the belief of the caster, and in how they draw upon it. But normal Detect Magic, etc. just says 'Magic'- perhaps some of the higher level divinations could show a difference- but who can cast them? Or perhaps, in fact, they ARE the same after all, and the ONLY difference is in belief- arcane magic is a gift from the Maker to humanity in this case.

-The reasoning I'm looking at is that my scholar will be mechanically a Bard, but from a very Church-based viewpoint. I would kind of like to have her (non-warlock) magic be, at least nominally, divine- or at the very least she believes it to be divine.


We will get to the corresponding heresies in a bit...

I kind of like that idea of Magdalena being the divine counterpart of the sorceress. Maybe they were using a form of the ritual with an incompatible power source?

As for the arcane vs. divine, in some as sense they do need to be different. They sometimes overlap, but the spell lists are very different. The vest example is healing spells. For bards, I tend to see them as dabblers. They study a bit of everything, hence why they can cast heals and such. Also their method of casting, through music or performance, seems closer to divine than arcane, anyway. Song plays both sets of strings, as it were.

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